A couple of questions from a potential new player


#1

Hiya!

To start off I would be joining not this event but e4, along with my wife. Too much work at the very least leaves me with some more time to construct a kit together.

Here they are:

  • Urizen and poise. I do understand it’s the basic cultural thing of the nation, is it very common that people don’t get it well ( by choice or otherwise ? ) ?
  • Poise again, would it be frowned upon to reject it outright?
  • Two handed swords, are they battle viable in empire’s skirmishes? Most people seem to propose either sword/board or pikes/polearms with 2handed swords not seemingly very popular, are they just ineffective in the setting? And if so could anyone grade for me which nation would it fit most thematically - Unconquered, Urizen or Steinr? Is any of those is a definite no go for a 1.5m long sword?
  • Traders of weapons, from the ones that were posted on the website and are supposed to be having a shop open at the events I can’t seem to find longswords longer then 1.25m, and hardly any 2handed swords. Do they usually have a better choice in stock during the event or again because of their lack of popularity the choice is very limited to begin with?

I had more questions on my mind before I started this topic but if I could have you awesome folks answer these for a start that would help me a lot already!

Thank you all in advance!


#2

Poise is a fundamental part of the urizen brief. However it is interpreted in different ways by different people.

It is not a complete lack of emotion, but it is generally considered that you should be in control of your emotions. Being angry and shouting at someone is fine as long as it’s what you have decided is appropriate at this time, rather than you losing your rag and ranting at someone.

That said, it is not uncommon at all for people to fail to be poised. Or for that matter to people to argue over whether a display of emotion was deliberate (and therefore poised) or uncontrolled (and therefor lacking in poise)

Rejecting it outright would not work. Empire is set up so that the fundamental nature of each nation is magically reinforced. It’s fine to not be very good at it, but no Urizen would reject it outright. Someone who disagreed with the spirit of their nation that much would literally feel compelled to find another nation that suited them more.

2 handed swords are perfectly viable. It’s just that they are a compromise between offence and defence. Sword ‘n’ board is better defensively, polearms are better offensively but 2 handed weapons are perfectly fine. As with any larp combat you’ll find your effectiveness vary depending on the size of the fight and what your opponent(s) bring to fight you with. I spent the first few years of Empire using a 2H axe on the front lines and never felt it was a problem.

All 3 of those nations could use any weapon, your only problem would be whether it looked right for the nation. For example, urizen weapons tend to be graceful, or at least pretty, an unconquered weapon I’d expect to look simple and functional. Something big and clunky with spikes on it wouldn’t fit Urizen. Similarly if your sword is gold and covered in gemstones with a basket hilt it would look weird for an unconquered.

Even then, most people should be willing to overlook that, it’s understood that weapon phys reps are expensive and most of us can’t afford to have multiple weapons just to coordinate with their costume.

Generally the variety of weapons the traders have at events seems to be wider than when I’ve looked on their websites. I’ve never had a problem finding 2 handed weapons at empire.

Hope that helps


#3
  1. and 2) Sorry, don’t know much about Uirzen.

  2. Good question… I’d say that greatswords are viable, if mixed with a few other weapons combos from your friends. Bear in mind that as well as the substantial reach offered by a greatsword, hero skills allow for things like IMPALE or STRIKEDOWN, not to mention several nasty magic versions :slight_smile:

The greatsword is very offensive though. Even a polearm is easier to defend with. So if you fancy being a weapon of mass destruction with your friends, they’re good.

Might also be trickier to use in terms of hard skills.

Unconquered are a subgroup of the Highguard, Steinr of the Wintermark. But in terms of grading those…
Urizeni (Sentinels) would do fine with a greatsword.
Steinr not quite as good, I see them more with big axes or hammers…
Unconquered… not really. I always picture them as skirmishers and rangers, not really wielding two-handed weapons.
None of them are a no-go.

  1. You should be able to find a good selection of greatswords at the weapons traders at the event. I’m sure I’ve seen a good few…

#4

Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated!

Would a traditional longsword work for urizen? I saw many people with elven weapons but no hilt makes it riskier to get hit in the hands if nothing else. I saw some urizen people, notably the man in red robes and metal on top for battle having a sword and board, sword having a hilt so I don’t think it’s unthinkable.

About rejecting poise, from what I understand if we consider sentinels the jedi masters going full sith at least for combat would not fit then? Would more of a Mace Windu approach with his fighting style of utilizing the dark side of the force more appropriate? Though he was a gray jedi… Hard to answer if you don’t know the references I’m talking about but I’ll leave it here for discussion’s sake.

@Geoffrey_Willoughby
When it comes to unconquered and longswords, I was picturing more like Aragorn under the guise of strider? If not, that’s fine, I am exploring my options. Highguard would be much harder for my wife to get into so I was mostly thinking of myself there and would figure out something for her after. Mostly cause she wants to be a healer/white mage and highguard seems to be mostly winter magic, talking to the dead and what not, would give her nightmares me thinks hahaha ^^

Good to hear there is a selection of them, hardly anything on the websites. Alternative being have a custom made by contacting one of the shops before-hand.


#5

Unconquered are the fast-moving skirmishers of Highguard. They tend to use weapons suited to that role; swords, bows, and spears. I play an Unconquered battlemage and use a staff. There’s nothing to say that a 2-handed sword wouldn’t be suitable for an Unconquered, but it’s not something I’ve seen used so far.

Highguard is not all Winter magic and ghosts, although that is certainly a large part of our remit. We have a good coverage of all the realms, and a good number of healer-mages and similar.


#6

I’m a Healer and Mage in Highguard, specialising in the Autumn realm for ritual magic. Others of my chapter are Winter mages but it’s not a requirement.

A 2 handed sword, especially if you have some heavy armour, would work in the Highguard shield wall, as a second line fighter behind the sword and board lot.

Most playing choices are viable in more than one nation, Empire is good like that!


#7

Not having a hilt just means you need to be better than your opponent and Urizen is all about being better. :wink:

There are all sorts of weapon styles in Urizen, hilts are entirely fine, hell one of the best sentinels we have left uses a 2 handed axe. Just make sure your sword isn’t a foot wide and decorated with skulls or anything like that and you should fit right in.

I would avoid direct star wars references, they won’t help you. Poise isn’t about being emotionless or denying your feelings, and it doesn’t label emotions as good or bad. It is possible to feel fear, anger, hate and suffering while still being completely poised.

Sith and Jedi could both be good examples of poise, Dooku and Maul are just as poised as Windu and Yoda. (Dooku in fact would be an excellent example of poise, particularly his duel with Yoda/Anakin. He’s unflappable throughout.)

The only concrete exception I could give you would be Anakin when he was in whiny teenage brat mode. That’s not poised.


#8

Good info there, thank you very much.

Apologies for the star wars references, I’m a big fan of them and it felt easier to explain what I ment that way ^^ Though I do feel like I understand poise much more then I did before I started this topic, thank you for that.

Was thinking something like this for the sword, with some kind of a back strap to hang it in:http://www.lightarmoury.co.uk/index.php/component/virtuemart/swords/25-60-great-sword-detail?Itemid=0
Is it too much for Urizen/does it fit the theme?
@thresher
There’s always a first! ^^

@thresher @CharlieP
When it comes to virtues, other then understanding them are you to follow all of them as a highguard, or dedicate yourself to follow one of them? How does it work out?

When it comes to highguard mages, would a leafy costume at all fit in? Say a spring mage?


#9

No need for apologies. References are a good way to discuss ideas like this. Just glad I could help. :slight_smile:

As for that sword, it’s generic enough that you could get away with it in nearly any nation, although it would be more unusual in some nations than others. Looks like it would be perfectly fine for Urizen or Highguard.


#10

[quote=“Sekinok-Jal, post:8, topic:5292, full:true”]
@thresher @CharlieP
When it comes to virtues, other then understanding them are you to follow all of them as a highguard, or dedicate yourself to follow one of them? How does it work out?[/quote]

Everyone should be following all the Virtues, it is the imperial religion, and you should expect to be questioned a lot if you doubt it. Most people (from all nations) often pick a particular Virtue that they follow more than any other, some choose to be dedicated to that Virtue, in game that can be a neat bit of discussion and ceremony, finding your characters Virtue, and picking the priest to dedicate you.
Highguard probably have more religious discussion than non priest chatavcers in other nations but you don’t have to be overly religious to be Highborn.

As an unconquered battle mage certainly on the field of battle that would be fairly appropriate. Unconquered are sneaky skirmishers so camouflage works for them.
In Anvil you would possibly be looked at oddly for wearing armour / battlefield clothes full time, but that could be easily solved by throwing your chapter surcoat over the top. (many chapters that are recruiting have spare surcoats for new recruits, and most will help you acquire your own once you have actually joined a chapter) Add a hood, veil or head scarf and you’ll be immediately recognised as Highborn.


#11

Regarding the Virtues, if you join Highguard you should at least have an idea of what all seven are. You can follow all of them, or one of them in particular.

A leafy costume isn’t really Highguard, unless you used elements of leaves as mage armour. Highguard costume is very stark, see here. Also, due to Highguard’s distrust of the Realms, walking about with leaves all over you as a spring mage will get you some very hard looks, and possibly a few tuts.


#12

Ahh I get it now. Virtues are like the ten commandments or so, but then more then that as you can dedicate to follow one of them more then the others?

Is heresy super frowned upon or makes for good RP most of the time? I understand excommunication might be the result, was just wondering ^^

Would a hood from your cloak work well enough for a highguardian cowl?

Also, Unconquered are mostly leather, would a suit of chainmail work at all for them? To throw it back again, thinking Aragorn/ Boromir. Chainmail covering until elbows/knees to be counted as heavy ( I assume thats how it works ), leather tunic on top / bracers and a cloak to hide it all, or is anvil mostly unarmed/unarmored other then navarr people walking about always ready?

I guess if I choose the virtue of vigilance being always ready would still work somewhat? Or is carrying around weapons and wearing armour unseen for anybody but navarr?


#13

I play an Urizen Sentinel, I’m usually armoured until about 9pm (or whenever I get too tired for any more skirmishes), solely to save time getting ready for skirmishes. I carry a sword at all times when out of my group tent, but more as a symbol of being a warrior rather than the expectation of needing it around Anvil.


#14

Anvil is safe ( from being stabbed, politically ruining your chances is different), so wearing armour full time is seen as odd, and makes people think you’re up to something. Even the Navarr don’t all wear their armour all the time.
Most people walk around in soft kit only, tunics, trousers, dresses etc. Getting dressed for battle is a conscious decision.

Yes a cloak’s hood would work fine for Highguard, but you may want a warm weather option too, if we’re lucky to get a warm September.

As for heresy, it’s only heresy if you speak about how one of the false virtues will help your soul, or go against official doctrine. discussion about the virtues, even the false ones, are not necessarily heretical, and you can think what you like inside your own skull.
You would need to first be inquisited, then a judgement raised for heresy and then you’re quite likely to just get dead from the magistrates, not excommunicated. it’s pretty difficult to get done for Heresy unless you’re really trying.


#15

@Bradstyley
As an Urizen Sentinel (as this really came down to Urizen vs Highguard Unconquered fast), can you tell me how would you feel about a guy wearing metal bracers, chainmail shirt with some robes? I mostly saw people going in breastplates I think so if chainmail is really out of Urizen idea of a heavy sentinel warrior then I would like to know.

@CharlieP
Likewise, Unconquered seem mostly to be wearing leather, however chainmail seems to be a much cheaper option for me to get it as part of my kit in comparison to leather armour ( unless I buy a leather worker kit and make it myself, but yeah lets stick to chainmail ). Would a bit of a boromir/aragorn ranger outfit with chainmail /leather shirt and cloak work for the unconquered outfit? Any chainmail hate there?

I mostly have an idea for a kit, just trying to make sure I don’t make very nonthematical choices.


#16

I wear a maille shirt under my kimono & robe (you can see it if you look closely at my profile picture) with plate vambraces & greaves- lots of Urizen players wear maille with plate in the type of combination you describe☺


#17

Pic by Adam Heritage of Yoularp. You can see both Kai of Phoenix Reach (the guy with the Pauldrons at the front) and me (the guy with the sloped sword next to him) wearing maille here


#18

Not sure I can find good pictures but plenty of chain in Highguard, often hidden under a surcoat though in battle.


#19

Thanks guys, that means neither of the nations is out of the question yet.

@MrK @Bradstyley

About Poise, from what I read on the forums here, people are writing things like restraining themselves not to invade personal space ( I understand that much, personal space is a big thing for Urizen ), laughing when you want somebody to see you laugh/smile though? I’m not sure then, and no offence I am simply not knowledgeable enough and have no experience with larp whatsoever, but if you’re smiling/laughing not as a reflex but because you choose to doesn’t that make you a bit like the server at a restaurant or the try my product employee at a supermarket?

Does poise cut out actual natural human interaction, emotions and reactions?

I’m a logical being myself but when silly stuff happens I laugh out loud. What is the aim of poise in the Urizen nation? It’s a cultural thing, yes but how did it come about? The spires strike me as a bit of buddhist monasteries, it would explain a lot about cutting off emotions then.

Am I reading too much into it? Are people following some parts of poise but don’t let it rule their lives or? Because at this point I see very clear similarities between league and urizen, both putting on a mask and not showing their true selves - even if they’re polar opposites at the same time with one of them being truthful and the other one an act.

Me head hurts! :confounded:

@Bradstyley I like his sword btw, where did he get his sword? ^^


#20

The way I look at Poise is that you feel the emotion, but you’re in control of if and how you choose to show that emotion- laughs and smiles can be genuine, and you might choose to show that emotion as a genuine thing to friends. You don’t cut the emotion off or repress it, you direct it and have control over its expression.

No idea where he got that sword!