A couple of questions from a potential new player


#61

I think the upper limit is probably for safety, swords beyond a certain length get quite whippy.

A bardiche is a good weapon, although bigger is not always better. A fighter with a sword and shield can quiet easily get inside a polearm fighter’s swing and take them out.

Also, most stab safe pole arms will cost upwards of £120, so there is a financial aspect to consider.


#62

Not to mention they can be a right pain to transport, pack and store. A minor issue but also deserving consideration. :slight_smile:


#63

The rules for weapons are Here
https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Weapons_%26_armour#two-handed_weapons
2 handed weapons are up to 60". Anything up 84" to is a pole arm and CAN have a stab safe tip. This means you have Halberds, Bills, Glaives, Guisarme, Glaive Guisarme, Gurisame Glaive… I digress.
I would highly recommend a stab safe halberd. They are a joy to use and something very different in larp. As said though they can be a pain to transport.


#64

@Sekinok-Jal

Bardiches are good, although they’re a quintessentially Varushkan weapon. There’s other options with similar abilities, like poleaxes used by Dawn, the Marches, and the League; the bhuj spears used by the Brass Coast; and potentially the curved glaives of Urizen.


#65

If I remember correctly the weapons categories are by length, so it’s not that there’s an upper limit on swords, but if you had a sword that was over the great weapon limit then it would technically be a pole arm.

You could still use it, but you’d have to follow the rules for polearms. Hands 18 inches apart at all times and restricted to polearm capable calls.

As usual. Not a ref so don’t quote me.


#66

Hiya, time for more questions ^^

As many others have, I have learned about empire lrp by watching mark hulmes and the hatfilms boys. In their videos they describe the skirmishes as super fun, very immersive and what not.

They also mentioned that lrp recorded doesnt look very good.

Now, to the point. As many others I stumbled upon the headcam videos from skirmishes. Watching the footage from 2016, I cannot agree it looks bad. You people have amazing kits and its very enjoyable to see orcs and empire players alike dishing it out.

What I didnt like is constant timeouts for 1-2 minutes, people moving around while 2 sides have a staredown, then another minute for them to stand in line - whats that about? Can you kind people explain to me is that still happening? Is it the norm that the flow of battle is constantly interrupted?

That was the bit that seemed most immersion ruining if anything.


#67

Its important to distinguish between battles an skirmishes- skirmishes might have 10-100 players & enemies, battles several hundred players against hundreds of Orcs. The Yoularp videos are of battles, not skirmishes.It’s rare to be continuously engaged in hand to hand for an entire battle (though I was for the vast majority of the Sunday battle at e2 this year- black plateau curse). You move in units and national groups, some will be engaged whilst others are in reserve or waiting for an opportunity for periods of time. The most effective attacks are usually those delivered to the flank or rear of an enemy unit, thus you often get stand offs as an opposing unit doesn’t want to give the enemy an opportunity to flank it. Taking the time to mass and attack as a mutually supporting group is much more effective than everyone running around as individuals- they who charge alone, die alone. Also you do sometimes get ‘Man Down’ safety calls if theres been a real injury, usually you separate and go down on one knee until they call time in again.Those Yoularp videos are pretty good IMHO, but trust me when you actually fight in the battles you remember it being like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones or similar, the physical and emotional intensity of the Sunday battle at e2 this year was pretty incredible :grinning:


#68

As Bradstyley says, it’s essentially tactics. One of the key points about Empire is that the enemies are “realistic”, in that they don’t wont to die any more than the players do. Monsters are encouraged to follow orders, save each other and preserve their own life rather than being a mindless horde of lemmings.

That frequently leads to the “stand off” you mentioned, it’s not that the flow of battle is interrupted so much as it ebbs and flows. There are lulls while everyone decides on the best position, or while groups relocate to different parts of the battlefield. Your general might order you to disengage so that you can cover another units retreat. That sort of thing.

An official time out is only used by the refs due to injury or potential injury due to a hazard in the area. Any other pauses are people looking at other groups of people and trying to decide if they can take them in a fight. :wink:


#69

Yeah a lot of those pauses are because people don’t want to die.
In the heads of those just standing around i’m sure you’re getting a lot of things like the following:
“Right there’s only 6 of them but they have spears…”
“Gotta give the Physick’s time to get Mick back on his feet.”
“Command says we’re just got to hold them off a little longer.”
“Where the hell are those [insert nation here] we were told they were supposed to support us.”
“Oh Virtues, I don’t want to die.”
“I’m going to charge when Jane charges…”
“Hmm, is that terrain going to be safe to fight on?”
“I really just want some water and a sit down…”


#70

The skirmishes are about 30mins long give or take… Battles are about 2 hours long. Those breaks you see can also just be people getting their breath back after a particularly quick march or spate of blood letting.


#71

As mentioned, it’s due to several reasons.

The actual “everyone stop gaming now” is the occasional Man Down call, for an OOC safety issue or injury.

And then there’s the maneuvering, the waiting for support, the holding of one objective or another, and the waiting for orders.

The orcs don’t want to charge until they have a good position and numbers, the Imperials likewise, and often one side or another is able to stand back and say: “They’re no threat, as long as we stand here, we’re winning…”

Given that you’re trying to get back into formation, worried about you buddy who fell behind, carefully watching those orcs if they make a move, and desperate for a drink and to get back through that portal… it’s pretty immersive :slight_smile:


#72

I thought the stop/start moments in the battles on those videos were quite insightful; they strike me as a much better model of history (with due regard to safety and fun) than, say, the heroics, weightless armour and endless stamina that we see in films.


#73

Indeed. A popular saying about battles is “Hurry up and wait”


#74

While I do get the safety/man down calls and they’re very important, this is the thing I don’t get.

  1. Your reserves shouldn’t be standing around willy nilly, they should be in formation.
  2. If your forces are not in formation, the enemy Should be using that occasion to break your forces, not give you breathing room to reform.
  3. Having people be out of breath and strike them then IS a tactic as well, giving them respite feels like the opponents don’t feel like we’re at war. As far as I read, there even was a ritual lately that killed thousands of non combatants of one of our enemies - do you really think the warriors you’re facing should be giving you that breath, shouldn’t be trying to cut your throat whenever possible?
  4. I think more people should be taken prisoners against their will, dragged away and what not :rofl: That would kickstart those RP buttons right up - you’ve seen an ally being dragged away and you did nothing to stop them!? You’ve seen an aly being dragged away and you jumped into the fray risking your life but ultimately failed? Cool stuff either way.

At the end of the day, I do understand that a big chunk of the orcs Are players that are simply alternating monstering. It does seem to me though that they’re trying hard to minimize player casualties, which I think is wrong on a fundamental basis. Everything that happens in empire gives you good RP, and so do player deaths. Well, not You technically at that point but you get what I mean ^^

@Gizmor
When it comes to endless stamina, that’s what the reserve is for and that’s why it should be in formation and ready - not standing around chatting. To give the current fighting force that breath of air to regain stamina. I don’t however agree that the breather should be given by default, a breather should be earned through good tactics and support of your forces.

Don’t get me wrong though, if neither side is formed and doesn’t feel confident that’s fine and dandy. It’s when I see situations where one of the sides Could strike a very critical blow but stands back for… no reason whatsoever until the opposite side reforms is what’s irking me. Empire is not honourable, they should not be treated with honour by the barbarians should they?

I might be wrong in all of this, but I would like to hear some counter-arguments.


#75

I suggest you go and play a few battles, at which point it will make a lot more sense. Those videos won’t tell you what the objective was, what the footing was like or how hot it was.

You’re trying to academically pick away at a huge situation that includes “like fuck are we supporting those clowns, we hate them for what they said about Our George” or “We’re low on mana, if we engage, we die, but we can look scary here” from the extremely limited perspective of GoPro videos.

Add to this that the forces on display are for the large part not at all drilled, but a mob of larpers many of whom don’t do LRP combat practice outside this system, and it makes more sense.


#76

I disagree strongly with the statement that player monsters try to minimise player casualties. Sunday battle last event was a bloodbath. Tactics etc vary between orc nations, and monsters are briefed to leave downed players down. I fight similarly as my orc as I do as my character. I find it more fun if there’s s decent fight to be had as a.plsyer, I don’t want them to go easy on us


#77

I’m not saying you’re wrong, by all means I will get a better point of view once I experience it.

You do have people like generals, bannermen - are they just titles? If they’re not keeping the unit in order, who is? Does each nation have one general to lead them in battle? Maybe the senate needs to further a motion to have lieutenants appointed by generals if they’re not managing it, to help them keep the line in check and the unit cohesive :wink:

What about ritual covens, do those enter battle? There’s a ritual to regain all mana, can that be cast in battle?

There is a time and place for posing, some battles were even won by having your opponent stand in the scorching sun in their full plate armours for hours while you stay in the shade of the trees before you engage them, it’s a valid tactic.

Don’t take those posts as negative though, I am nothing but genuinely interested in discussion and learning.

@Kargur
That’s good then and that’s how I hope most if not all monstering players think. Why would the downed players be left there though? I don’t know which barbarian nation was the ritual used against, but if in RP your brothers and sisters have been massacred by the empire’s ritualistic magic surely you won’t be leaving your opponents on the ground until you’re sure they’re not breathing anymore?

If other nations, capture players to be used as slaves? They’re banned in the empire, are they banned in the barbarian nations though?


#78

Yes there are Field Marshals, Generals, Captains, Seconds etc in the command structure. As the above poster says I’d strongly recommend participating in the battles and seeing how they actually work for yourself before deciding on what improvements you think can be made.

Yes, ritual teams do often accompany Imperial forces onto the field, the objective of the Sunday battle at e2 was to protect a ritual team whilst they changed a regio from one type to another.


#79

Part of it is player monsters are not allowed to execute players, to avoid things like accusations of oc grudges going ic. It’s done by skirmish crew. Also means their mates can potentially rescue them. From player side it really motivates/breaks your heart to see your mates bleeding out behind the orc lines.

It’s part of 5ye brief to leave them where they fall.


#80

Remember that those units are made of Heroes who often don’t fight together outside of anvil, either IC or OOC.

There are unit commanders, runners all reporting to the Field Commander who is appointed by the generals. Having not seen the videos in question myself all I can go off is my time in battles. Units move and shift at their commanders orders, sometimes in fixed formation sometimes in lose formation sometimes in no formation at all. I’ve seen marcher Billblocks that step and fight in precision, Highguard Shieldwalls that form and reform as needed and loose gatherings of skirmishers which slowly move around.

As for not pressing, a lot of people when the blood’s pumping and the adrenaline’s up don’t know when to push forward, or all four are waiting for the guy next to them to take the first step and are waiting for that guy to start the attack. I don’t think I know a single person who has played a commander who hasn’t got a story of ending up with a ragtag group of whomever outnumbering an enemy force but hesitating and leading that attack with an inspiring call and a brash demeanour and little to nothing to back it up.

Remember also those videos are several years old we’ve had great successes and failures since then and a lot of the Command and control process has been improved. That said if you go to battle and find the command and control limited or lacking then go ahead and get involved in trying to improve it for your nation, whether by aiding or trying to replace the existing generals and commanders. Now some of this will be limited by the law and the Constitution (The Heroes of Anvil are not Soldiers, they are not bound by law to follow any Orders but those they choose.). Alternatively you could look at calling those who fail up for inquisition if you believe it was a failing of virtue.

As for Ritual Covens, they do sometimes enter the battlefield as covens but like Priestly forces, when they do it tends to be as mission packages. We’ll get mission requirements like ‘reach the regio, hold it long enough for this ritual to be cast and then extricate the mages." or "Get the priests to the source of the False Virtue aura, let them cleanse it and then get them out’ often attached to other requirements like hold a pass, slaughter a general or bring down the Monster.

In terms of the regain mana rituals you’re thinking of rituals like Solace of Chimes and chamber of Palas. They require 15 minutes or ‘rest’ without fighting to regain Personal Mana so they are not a battlefield resource.

Yeah, Most players who are Monsters take great delight in their monstrous roleplay, I know a particular bunch of archers who keep very careful score of who they shoot and delight in taking out difficult and important targets.

As for not executing, it is mostly a game design decision (‘He’s dead’ is less fun than ‘we have to rescue him.’) but each of our enemies have their own reasons. The Jotun see themselves as Honourable Warriors, the Grendel belief in Ransoming prisoners and the Druj are likely to just want to torture you first before you die.