Can a mage staff be thrust safe?

Is it possible to have a mage staff with a thrust-safe tip, and use it in two hands to stab?

(Obviously this would need the battle mage skill, and wouldn’t be able to CLEAVE, but I would be able to REPEL with the tip)

profounddecisions.co.uk/empi … attle_Mage

Pikes and one-handed spears say they must be thrust safe, polearms say they can be thrust safe, two handed weapons cannot. I couldn’t find any specific mention elsewhere on the wiki. It did get mentioned in another thread, but that poster wanted a mage staff in one hand and a shield in the other (like a one-handed spear and shield).

My recollection of that other thread, or at least another thread was that the mage staff cannot be made thrust safe because it’s spears and polearms which can have thrust safe tips, and staffs are neither of those things, indeed must not even resemble those things.

No

Two separate issues here:

Q 1: Is it possible to make a staff with a thrust safe tip so it can be used in two hands to stab?

A: Possibly, if you talk very very nicely to your friendly neighbourhood weapon maker. But no-one currently produces such a thing.

Q 2: If I come across such a rare and precious item of kit, can I use it in two hands to stab at an Empire event?

A: No.

OK, that’s a shame but I understand it. Of course there’s nothing wrong with taking Weapon Master and carrying an actual stab safe polearm onto the field, I just wouldn’t be able to cast ‘through’ it, right?

Incidentally, I thought I linked to the “other thread” I referred to, here it is: the-rules/upcoming-rule-changes-the-modern-battlemage-t370-25.html specifically the last two posts.

[quote]Two separate issues here:

Q 1: Is it possible to make a staff with a thrust safe tip so it can be used in two hands to stab?

A: Possibly, if you talk very very nicely to your friendly neighbourhood weapon maker. But no-one currently produces such a thing.

Q 2: If I come across such a rare and precious item of kit, can I use it in two hands to stab at an Empire event?

A: No.[/quote]

Well yes, but I was looking at it the other way. If it turned out to be possible, I would have contacted various weapon makers to commission one!

Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places online, but any weapons and armour for Empire mages - Wands, Rods, Mage Armour - seem hard to find ‘off the peg’.

[quote=“HertsJ”]
Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places online, but any weapons and armour for Empire mages - Wands, Rods, Mage Armour - seem hard to find ‘off the peg’.[/quote]

For the weapons Irregular Props certainly make some for Empire - facebook.com/irregularprops?fref=ts

Most of the weapon stalls on the field had at least one implement, and some had a wide range. My rod is from Skian Mhor; I believe my wand is also.

This is probably going to lead to a lot of debate, however:

[Me to Empire Rules]
“Are stab-safe staffs or flail-style implements allowed?”

[Empire Rules to Me]
"Stab safe staves are allowed, provided they are built to stab with and pass weapon check.

Flail-style implements are not allowed as they are not a rod, wand or staff physrep."

With this ruling, I made a stab-safe mage staff which one of our group has been using since Event 1.

[quote=“HertsJ”]
Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places online, but any weapons and armour for Empire mages - Wands, Rods, Mage Armour - seem hard to find ‘off the peg’.[/quote]

Eldritch (larpkit.com/wands-rods-batons/) do wands as well as rods and staves. In general most traders will have something on their stall at the event, but as only staves tend to be used in other systems they may not have them on the website.

[quote=“Hammerhydra”]This is probably going to lead to a lot of debate, however:

[Me to Empire Rules]
“Are stab-safe staffs or flail-style implements allowed?”

[Empire Rules to Me]
"Stab safe staves are allowed, provided they are built to stab with and pass weapon check.

Flail-style implements are not allowed as they are not a rod, wand or staff physrep."

With this ruling, I made a stab-safe mage staff which one of our group has been using since Event 1.[/quote]

Well that’s pretty clear, and email rulings from Empire Rules are authoritative. Certainly more so than posts on here. One thing that PD needs to tighten up on though is getting those rulings elucidated in the broadly-accessible wiki so everyone can work from the same songsheet.

personally, I would debate the nature of a stab save staff as I would feel it would rule it out of normal staff fighting. But then, I’ve never been entirely sold on “stab safe” as a concept.

I can assure you that the end of a staff is an entirely valid striking surface in “normal” staff fighting…

Womble: his concern is that if the end of the staff is stab safe, it will make it hard to use in normal combat. Much like when you have a sword with a stab safe tip and you find you lose a lot of parrying surface as it just flexes.

It’s not any trickier from a design perspective than making a stabsafe spear. You use exactly the same technology, just style it a bit differently. And the very tip of a weapon isn’t a sensible place to be parrying anyway…

A competent maker can build a stab-safe staff, which is also perfectly usable for strikes as a non-stab-safe one, and is even double ended to allow thrusts with either end. It’s not particularly tricky technically. The only real limitation is if it’s allowed, which it apparently is.

I also queried this before the start of the game, so that I could commission a thrust-safe staff from Saxon Violence.

[quote=“Empire.rules”]Can I stab with a stab-safe mage staff physrep?

  1. You can, providing it is ovewr 60" in length and meets all the safety requirements of a stab safe weapon - it must not be a stab safe spear, as it is then a weapon, not a talisman. [/quote]

This really does need to be added because the current staff lengths include 42-60" physreps.

This topic confused me until i realised it was started 6 years ago :smiley:

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