Casting a (Mastered) Mag 3 Spell

Hopefully a quick question…

If I have a Mag 3 Ritual mastered, would it still cost me 2 Mana Crystals to cast it (1 x 2 [mastered])+1?

Would it still be the same if I have a +1 lore ring, or cast it in the Anvil Regio, or take a potion?

Just trying to work out what Lore level I should take based on only casting Mag 3 rituals, and I have come up with 4 different answers in the last 5 minutes (bearing in mind top value of 3 x initial lore).

Help!!

Yes. Barring certain abilities that reduce the magnitude of a ritual or let you substitute something in place of crystal mana, a mastered ritual requires half its magnitude (rounding up) in mana crystals, whilst an un-mastered one requires its full magnitude.

The calculation here is:

I need to hit mag 3.

Assuming I have at least 2 ranks of lore, and the ritual mastered.

I contribute my maximum 2 mana towards the ritual. As I have the ritual mastered, each mana counts for 2 magnitude. Therefore I hit magnitude 4. As this is at least the desired magnitude, I can cast it.

If I only had 1 rank of lore, I would have to get another rank - such as from a regio or a potion - in order to be able to contribute more than 1 mana.

Supposing I had 2 ranks but didn’t have the ritual mastered:

I contribute my maximum 2 mana towards the ritual. As I don’t have it mastered, each mana only counts for 1 magnitude. So I only hit magnitude 2 - I can’t cast this ritual.

Again, if I had a boost to my lore from a regio, potion or otherwise, I could contribute 3 mana, which would let me hit magnitude 3.

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Makes things a lot clearer, thanks :grinning:

So, just to be sure that I have this right, if I am casting a Mag 3 spell (Mastered), then either casting it with lore 2 or lore 3 would still involve the same amount of Mana Crystals? Lore 2 mastered would cost me 1 (mastered, so 1 Mana Crystal) and another one = 2. Lore 3 would cost me 2 (mastered) = 4. So 2 either way?

Yes. If all the contributors to a ritual have it mastered, it doesn’t matter if they have just the right amount of lore or 20 times as much - it still costs the same number of mana crystals.

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“Just trying to work out what Lore level I should take based on only casting Mag 3 rituals”
OK, but why specialise in Magnitude 3 Rituals? Casting a Mag. 3 ritual by yourself is rather wasteful unless you’re pumping it up to Mag. 8 and getting 3 targets in it. You might want to do it because it’s useful, but specialising in inefficient ritual casting sounds like a good way to avoid getting to cast rituals. I’m guessing you’re going Summer as it’s the only one with more than 1 Mag 3 ritual.

As a starting PC, you can get up to Magnitude 8 easily as a ritual specialist. Lore 3 + 1 from regio, and Mastery means your lore counts double. I’d look at things that are Lore 6-8 for solo casting, and leave a couple of slots open so you can add whatever your coven’s mastered, once you find one. Or consider taking Lore 3 and the Mag 3 buffs, and doing 3 people at once at a regio.

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The way ritual casting works in general is as follows:

  • You can spend one crystal mana per rank of lore you have (including innate lore and all bonuses).
  • The maximum crystal mana you can spend is 3x your innate lore.
  • Each crystal mana counts for 1 magnitude towards the ritual.
  • If you have the ritual mastered, each crystal mana counts for 2 magnitudes.
  • If you can rack up enough magnitude to equal or exceed the rank of the ritual, you can cast it for that much mana.
  • You don’t get change.
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Considered that possibility but also contemplating (another) battle mage, so Lore 2 would give me access to buff people of my sect (Endurance / Impale / Strikedown / Cleave) with minimal cost of Crystal Mana and would also allow me to take the field as and when I wanted to. I’m also not going to join a coven so taking Lore 3 would limit potentially other builds (artisan / apothecary etc.)

But now you have tempted me to reconsider…

Why are you sure you’re not joining a coven?

Also this has made me think of an edge case - there are some circumstances where you can substitute measures of something else for mana, usually 2 per crystal. What effect would that have on casting an odd numbered magnitude mastered? Would you only need 1 for the half magnitude, or 2?

Yeah, being able to buff your group is pretty handy. But big strategic covens are always after new members so they can hit the big numbers. If you put your Wizard CV out, expect to get scooped up. I’d probably take 1-2 buffs (The +1 Hit is great as it works on everyone) and then 2 blank slots and find a coven. Then you have personal rituals and group ones.

If you’re going battlemage/ritualist, have you thought about taking rituals that work well with battlemage or during a battle? The big advantage of a solo caster is they can do a mastered ritual right this instant.
As an example:
Summer 2

  • Put Renewed Strength of the New Day in there. With Lore 2 you can wipe weakness off 5 PCs for 2 Mana Crystals.

Day 2

  • Ascetic Star of Atun (Efficient 5-person venom purge with Lore 2)
  • Illuminate the Higher Mind (Share one of your Extra Spells)
  • Horizon’s Razor Edge (1/day Cleave)
  • (THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK). Learn something if/when you find a coven.

Spring 2

  • Blood of the Hydra (Efficient 5-limb Restore Limb with Lore 2)
  • Hands of Sacred Life (Efficient 5-person full heal with Lore 2)
  • Turns the Circle (Surprisingly useful in dealing with supernatual BS)
  • BLANK SLOT

It’s a more reactive build, but it makes you an effective group healer. You can throw out 2 crystal mana and heal 5 people, which is a good rate of exchange when you can round up 5 wounded.

Remember that the Imperial Regio gives you +1 Lore if you stand in it, meaning that a Lore 2 buff caster is really going up to Mag 6 Rituals.

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For ‘reasons’ :wink:

I do want to get hold of a Volhov’s Robe so I could contribute to more than 1 coven if necessary, but my character dislikes forming permanent ‘arrangements’. I am still trying to work out whether or not to take the field this year (waiting on some medical tests to come through), and that will push me in one direction or another :slightly_smiling_face:

I was about to suggest Volhovs.

Fair enough. I’ve mostly relied on “Bond in, do thing, bond out” if I’ve had to be in 2 covens. But then Landskeepers in play have tended to treat covens as flags of convenience even when not doing huge rituals.

Typical example wording:

“Any caster who has mastered the ritual may choose to substitute Orichalcum for crystal mana when contributing to it. Every 2 ingots of Orichalcum spent counts as 1 crystal mana when contributing to the ritual.”

Good question… if you’ve mastered the ritual so that each crystal counts for two magnitude, then
one mana crystal —> two magnitude
two ingots —> one mana crystal
Therefore maybe
one ingot —> half a crystal —> one magnitude?
I suppose it might be allowed, but I have a feeling it wouldn’t. The wording is not “Each ingot counts as half a crystal,” or even “Crystal mana may be replaced with twice as much Orichalcum.” (A question for rules@, I suppose.)

Also, my reading of those cases is that using the other substance instead of mana crystals makes no difference to the magnitude itself, or to the lore requirement. (If the rules do allow casting a mastered magnitude-5 ritual using 5 ingots that each count as half a crystal, then you might argue that you only need lore of two-and-a-half… but lore goes in whole-number steps.)

By contrast, there are situations that explicitly lower the magnitude of certain rituals. For example, Whispers through the Black Gate allows this option:

“The ritualists may consume up to 5 measures of liao as part of the ritual. Every measure consumed in this way reduces the magnitude of the ritual by 2.”

(…and if the ritualists are orcs, they’ll be very ill.)

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The rules are pretty clear:

Two x counts as 1 crystal mana.

That’s absolutely not the same as “One x counts as half a crystal mana” or the like. I am not, strictly speaking, rules@pd - but I am confident that casting a mag 3 ritual with mastery and a substitution like this would cost you 4 of the resource you’re using (counting as 2 crystal mana).

It is correct to note that these make no difference to magnitude or lore requirements. The total amount of power required to be spent is the same and the total amount of lore required to control/use that power is also the same.

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