How long will Empire last?


It seems i wont be able to get to Empire for a while (a couple years probably). I heard somewhere that the last setting PD ran (Maelstrom) lasted 9 years, and Empire has already been going on for 4 years. I am afraid that by the time I got there either it will be over or so close to the end there wont be time for my character to effect the world much (which is what i mainly want). So, any idea how long Empire will last?


I have heard of no intent to finish any time soon. There’s still plenty of game to be had, and the system itself is less prone to falling in on itself than Maelstrom was. I can’t see it finishing unless the Empire makes some catastrophic choices IC and destroys itself, or if there are OC difficulties with running it (so far Matt and the team have overcome some very tough problems so it would have to be something pretty hard for that to happen).


what caused/ how did Maelstrom fall in on itself?


Empire has just started its 6th year, and from discussions with the big boss, it is designed to last as long as the game attracts players.

So while Empire will change over time, adapting to better suit the way the players play, I would imagine this game will still be running in ten, even twenty years time.


Mealstrom ended due to a few reasons. The ones I heard about were:
Downtime was a nightmare to make work.
A number of in game End the World buttons were pressed.
PD felt the game had ran its course and rather than keep it about limping, make something new and cool.

Of which I cant see any of this happening any time soon in empire. Not saying it will never end, but it does have a better structure to allow it to aim for that goal.


I got the impression that PD had learnt things about how they want a game to run, and the changes were too big to be possible to implement in an existing game. Given the amount of trial and error experience the team have with running fest LARPs and how much effort they put into designing Empire, I hope that problem will never apply to Empire.


I have some memory of the in-game finances being an issue. The podcast discussed how money in and out is a part of running the empire, but I think they said it’s been running a deficit recently. If so, there will be a Bourse member or two who know how long the empire can go before the treasury is empty and either taxes go up or military spending goes down.

Potentially, that means that Empire might have no planned end, but the empire itself might run out of money to pay its soldiers and sailors. Whether PD meant to do this or whether it’s an oversight could affect how likely PD are to intervene.


Oh don’t worry about that there are plenty of ways the Empire can correct that, if the Empire runs out of money Armies, Fortress and other things will start to go pop until the budget is balanced. If you want to know the ins and outs of the economy the Master of the Mint is a good person to talk to and I know she produces and sells a helpful pamphlet describing just how much “fun” the imperial economy is atm :slight_smile:.

I think the game will go on pretty much as long as people want to play it. Personally I think after 5 years it’s just really started to get going :wink: .


Oh, I hope so. It might be interesting to see an empire just at the start of its decline in some ways, but I want to be in this for the long haul.


Just for reference, this would never happen as it’s written to be unconstitutional to do so.

From the Constitution:

“Each citizen that owns land or property will tithe annually wealth equal to a single crown to be used in service of the Empire that protects them.”

And from the official Commentary:

“The guarantee of citizens’ “prosperity” is presented by nations like the League and the Brass Coast as proof that the Empress intended citizens to be able to pursue their own wealth and prosperity without consideration for the Empire itself. It has been used countless times to rule unconstitutional motions and laws intended to raise additional taxes for the Senate or to seize control of the estates of the Bourse. As a result taxation remains fixed at levels laid out in the constitution.”


Its is now why sinecures and great works are getting so much focus at the moment as they bring in additional revenue.


Note to self: find the Master of the Mint and obtain a pamphlet.


I saw one last event. It was Harrowing reading. Especially when you look at the bourse auction figures and realise that the people who buy the seats effectively fund the empire.


I am currently clueless to the economics of the Empire beyond funds going into my family’s coffers, but when I retire R after E2 and slip over to the League it will be something G is very interested in and concerned about.


If the Empire economy became so broken the whole game broke, PD could fix that. “Unconstitutional” means “against the game design PD want”, if PD really needed a reason for something to become constitutionally allowed I’m sure they could find one. A constitutional document could be found to be fake or something like that. Or for something as straightforward as cashflow, change something else.

The problems with Maelstrom would have required the forceful retirement of a large number of characters and groups to fix, and that’s for some of the more straightforward problems.


Also allowing the players to break the game is a goal?
We need that chance of failure to strive to improve, to have that sense of challenge.


Maelstrom was a game of discovery, of escalation, of exploring a tech tree (even if, yes, sometimes the organisers were building the next level of the tree even as people explored the current one). That’s something that has an end.

Empire - doesn’t have that same thing. It’s not designed as finite. It’s… out of the tutorial and into the main campaign, shall we say, but there’s a hell of a world out there.


Things to do in Empire, Long Term:
Wipe out the Druj. Cos the little cockroaches can’t be trusted.
Reclaim all lost territory in our historic borders.
This includes the Barrens and all the Navarri woods. So we’ll have to wipe out the Vallorn as well.
Make friends with all our nieghbours and convert them to the Way, by fire and sword if necessary.
Ensure that the economy is running at a profit, the treasury is full, and the money is kept in constant circulation.
Keep all 10 nations happy, despite, or perhaps because of their differences.

Things to do with Empire, long-term, OOC:
Create an awesome game the envy of LARP groups across the world.
Get a permanent site.
Do not break Matt P.

I think we’ll be happily playing this for a few years to come :slight_smile:


But equally, I’d hope that the game isn’t totally dependent on Matt or anyone else… ideally it would be able to keep going nicely even if any three people die suddenly in a freak collapsing-tent mud fire tractor accident with scorpions.


I think if three people did die in a freak collapsing-tent mud fire tractor accident with scorpions, the game would at the very least take a temporary hiatus for health and safety red tape and investigations…