How to make a god


#20

How do we know that possession isn’t just ventriloquism for demons and such things. maybe it’s part of hell’s got talent or something.

I know it wouldn’t be as funny as wear hat, that arms and legs flail every time the eternal turns his head but I just thought I would share it because I thought it was amusing.

Can they do stuff to your soul? Certain internal organs and mind, that’s easy to do, people can do that but I’m not sure about the soul. Unless true liao is actually just being used to trick us and that what we are seeing isn’t our past lives then that means wouldn’t your soul go when you die? That would mean the soul would have to be got before the person died or trapped before it goes? Has there been anything even remotely similar to that?


#21

As far as I know, to a large extent the soul stuff is canonically uncertain.

Some people have had visions of their past lives. This does not mean ALL souls reincarnate, or that new souls are generated, or whatever.

The Brass Coast think some end up as dolphins. The Marches think some end up as apple trees. The heresy of the Land Without Tears (entirely player made, driven, combatted and condemned) suggested a way out of the reincarnation cycle altogether. And it’s suspected that dead claimed by the Vallorn have their souls trapped within them.

As for what an Eternal does with a human soul… ah, you’ll have to ask around :slight_smile:

And then there’s the Orcs, who I still don’t understand…


#22

Briefly Doctrinally:

Human Souls: Reincarnate until they eventually become Paragons of Virtue and achieve Liberation. Through the taking of True Liao is specially designed situations you can have a Past Life Vision.

Orc Souls: Do not reincarnate. After their death they leap the maelstrom and either fail and fall into Oblivion or reach the other side and Join their ancestors. All Orcs, to one extent or another, can hear the voices of their ancestors especially in times of stress.

As for how certain we are of these… This is a fact based religion but it is still a religion. Faith is as important as understanding.

There are a number of Eternals who wish to interact with human souls in different ways, Wendigo for example or Kayla and her grim legion. How much of those are actually souls as opposed to other factors is a matter for debate, investigation and frowning from the Synod.


#23

@Geoffrey_Willoughby and @Ricohard, thank you both for the information. I may look into this next event. All very interesting stuff.


#24

Thank you :slight_smile:


#25

I was only stating that to address expectations. I wouldn’t want to encourage someone to do something that is likely to go nowhere, and then have them disappointed because they thought it was a sure thing.


#26

Another thing you may consider is becoming a Paragon. In the Way (the official and legally sanctioned religion of The Empire) it is the highest status, both legally and metaphysically, one can accomplish. Your so awesome your soul transcends mortality and escapes the cycle of reincarnation. While you won’t be hurling fire or sharks from your fingers there are rumors that those who have achieved such a high spritual state can perform miricels ( Good Walder is a famous example). These are usually in the form of spontaneously using priest skills without using Liao however.
There is also a (somewhat) clear guideline on how to become a Paragon as well.
The only examples of IC mirricals I can remember from the wiki are the spontaneous hallowing of a bandage from a medic and a (possible) bodily accendance (when the PC died their body disappeared, the building they were in was permenatly consecrated and everyone in the building was permenatly anointed).
I don’t know ooc how it works, but my guess is that if you are virtuous enough to catch the eye of the plot team and the organizers agree, stuff happens.
Edit: also, while not worshiped per sè (as that would be idolotry) paragons are venerated across the empire and beyond. Their lives are the subject of much study and preaching and it’s very common for people to pray to them meditate on their virtue.

Just out of curiosity, which virtue are you more leaning towards?


#27

Not sure about @IWillGetThingsRong but honestly, the false virtue of mercy


#28

Hello. There are lots of ideas of morals in Empire, but only 7 True Virtues and a limited but unknown number of False ones. As far as anyone knows, Mercy is not a False Virtue, as you can’t get auras of mercy.

Virtues:

  • Spiritual presences that can create auras.
  • The name is not the thing. E.g. Wisdom is not prudence or carefulness.
  • Officially endorsed by the Synod as Helping You Reincarnate Better.
  • Vigilance, Wisdom, Prosperity, Courage, Loyalty, Pride, Ambition.

False Virtues

  • Spiritual presences that can create auras.
  • Not recognised by the Synod as Helping You Reincarnate Better.
  • Just like Virtues, the name is not the thing.
  • It is illegal to treat these as Virtues.
  • Example: Justice.
    • It is not illegal to think the concept of justice is important (i.e. criminals should have a fair trial).
    • It is illegal to say “justice will get you through the Labyrinth better” or to put up auras of Justice everywhere.
    • The False Virtue of Justice is also known as Vengeance. It is not exactly about things like fair trials, if you have a look at how Faraden works. They’re more about escalating revenge.
  • It is generally quite hard to acquire Dedication to or auras of these in play unless you chase after an existing plot about one.

Other Philosophical Concepts

  • Secular ideas such as “mercy” that do not create auras.
  • It’s illegal to promote these as religiously good.
  • It’s not illegal to promote these as socially or politically good, only to say they are equally or more important than Virtues.
  • You cannot do ceremonies of these.

#29

I’d have a back up character ready if you start pursuing that one on the field :slight_smile:. I mean the Synod players who enjoy hunting down heretics and inquisiting them will love you, but playing a heretic is hard work and you will have a limited lifespan.

One way to get the most fun out of it is to have a buddy or a small group of fellow heretics to support each other. As otherwise it can be a lonely and precarious existance.

Best of luck though :+1:


#30

The worship of humans is not idolatry. In fact Humans are the pinnacle of creation, and Paragons the pinnacle of Humans, so it’s obvious that Paragons should be worshipped.

Can’t believe it’s not been mentioned, but this article may be of interest https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Religious_crime

In short, if you want to go along with the setting then don’t make your mission to be making a really powerful and inspirational other-worldy entity, make your mission to be making a really powerful and inspirational player character.


#31

It’s a mix of the aura of peace and hope, a sort of mix to get more out of the two combined then as seoerate weaker influences


#32

You’re not going to get an aura of Mercy unless PD decide they want to run it out as a plot. And PD are vanishingly unlikely to do that when they have enough False Virtues to use already. It would just dilute the game. This is not a game where players get to research new spiritual abilities. You can research/concoct new spiritual theories all you like though.

You cannot smush together auras to invent new ones, they just don’t work like that. Again, it would dilute the game by meaning there aren’t clear Virtues (or False Virtues) with clear causes. There’s no such thing as a dedication to “Prides-perity” for example. Also, False Virtue Dedications are really uncommon. As in, the number of PCs I’ve known to have had them is in the single digits and I’ve spent 3 years hurling my PC at this sort of plot. Just getting a Hope dedication would be an achievement, never mind trying to also get a Peace one for your cult buddy and team up Peace Hallows and Hope Anointings or whatever.


#33

If you’re specifically interested in Peace then these folk might be some people to keep an eye out for: https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Mountains_of_the_Moon


#34

I do like the idea of study to see if there is /find a new Eternal, there are areas that IMHO are not covered by Eternals (Although there aresome that do cover most areas) I was thinking along the lines of maybe ‘minor eternals’ for Stars, the Moon, Rivers etc?? just a thought


#35

Well the stars have their own power, See Astromancy and Tulpas. There is power in the constellations however they are very different to that of the Eternals.

The Moon, seems to have surprisingly little magical relevance, but for some Urizeni hearth Magic

And Eternals aren’t spirits of the land they are extradimensional entities more like the Fey of Pratchett or some of the more understandable entities of Lovecraft’s mythos than shinto like Kami or animistic spirits.

Thats not to say that there aren’t Eternals out there that we haven’t encountered, after all we only met Lord Adamant in the last few years. But you’ll likely have better luck, and its still a long shot, in looking at areas that resonate with the realm but which aren’t already covered by an existing Eternal…


#36

New Eternals are very much “push” plot not “pull” plot. PD needs writers willing to produce encounters and briefs for a given eternal, so they’re unlikely to get written unless a writer is very keen. Whereas interacting with an existing one can by “pull” plot where you do a thing to/for that eternal’s minions and a response happens.

It’s in a few places on the wiki that foreign nations know Eternals that we don’t, and don’t know some of the ones we do. Empire is much more a detective game than a research game. You can’t really find a metaphysical space and play hunt the eternal in it, because there is so much empty space there and very few ways to proactively look. Even Historical Research is likely to come back with an interesting sort of “no” unless someone wants to write a new Eternal.

Your best bet to find an Eternal is to look for clue in existing IC documents. Names you don’t recognise, for example.


#37

I only know enough about religion to keep my head off the metaphorical chopping block. Beyond the seven virtues (and even then I forget a few now and again) and some of the things you can’t do, I don’t know much about religion as it isn’t what I have specialised in. Sorry I can’t be of more help.


#38

Note: Humans have spirits. Orcs have souls.

Because whichever player wrote the Orc doctrines wrote souls down. The other Doctrines only mention human spirits.

Subtle, but important… And Spirits don’t necessarily equal souls.


#39

Holy crap, I never noticed that before…!