To avoid confusion, it’s probably worth clarifying - 4-in-1 is a way of making scale that is different to the 4-in-1 weave for making chain. I’m assuming that even if you used the 4-in-1 scale pattern with steel rings and aluminium scales, it would be medium?
On some poking, it looks like 4 in 1 scale is basically 4 in 1 mail with half the mail rings replaced with scales.
That would need to have both steel scales and steel rings, according to my understanding. Otherwise half of it is aluminium, and I’m pretty sure that a mail shirt made with alternating rows of steel and ally is also medium.
I’m pretty sure that a shirt made with alternating rows of steel and aluminium is asking for trouble - I think it would come apart pretty spectacularly under stress.
Anyway, I’ve put together an order big enough to qualify for their 20% discount - if anyone wants in, let me know soon.
That’s good to know.
Still, the stresses on a hauberk are going to be a lot more.
As for aluminium butted rings, I’ve seen hauberks (and even a coif) of them fall apart under their own weight.
The second of the tutorial/pattern links I gave above has instructions for “expansions” and “contractions”, very like “increasing” and “decreasing” in knitting. (As Dre says, you can add darts and gores.) It also has a section “Creating a Cupped Form” (relevant for codpieces, shoulders etc.)
A quarter, not half, if we’re talking about the pattern that’s called “4 in 1” in the tutorial at sites.google.com/site/thehappyb … e-tutorial
There it says there are three rings per scale, and it’s fairly clear in the picture at bottom left of the page “Attaching Horizontal and Diagonal Edge”.
The other (“standard”) weave in that tutorial is like the conventional historical maille 4-in-1 pattern with a quarter of the rings replaced by scales and another quarter missing: the ones above, below and to the sides of the scales.
Morning folks, i just came across this thread and though I’d offer my two pence on the situation. I made a scale Hauberk (without sleeves) back in 08 using ali scales with a stainless steel coating. I don’t use this at the moment but I’ve loaned it to my friend Rob who plays one of the Wintermark generals.
The concerns have all been listed but just ot re-iterate from my experience.
- Its going to take 3000 - 4000 scales for a medium person
- You will need double that amount of rings for joining the scales together. I used split rings and had the special pliers tool. I actually found using this to be easier than butted rings when it came to connecting (i could just be strange though)!
- Regarding what the armour would be classed as - i think the above armour has a strong case for being classed as ‘heavy’ armour. Not only does it look the part, its weight (due to the backing rings) is comparable to most suits of maile.
I suppose the contention with the rules arises because its part made from aluminium and split rings but i believe there are sufficient rings in there to get ‘heavy’. Anyway - one for the refs to decide.
Best of luck with your endeavour, it’s a right pain in the ass but the end product is stunning!
I’ve made 3 shirts out of the The Ringlord’s scales, one of which is currently playing in Brass Coast. All use spring-temper stainless butted rings, and all have sleeves. I’d endorse Henry Talbot’s comments, but add that you should have some extra rings to make the hems a bit neater and more robust.
I understand that the Brass Coast one (aluminium scales with stainless steel rings) has been adjudicated to be heavy. Certainly it does weigh a lot 
Of my other shirts, one is brass. This is even heavier, and the brass tarnishes - especially when in contact with other metals. Polishing scales is a right hassle, so I too would advise anodized aluminium if you want them shiny.
I’m happy to talk through construction and so on. My experience is that tailoring is largely unnecessary as the material stretches quite a bit to fit, so long as you get your initial measurements right. As with any mail, though, armpits are awkward and so I’ve always made them of mail with no scales.
The quick and dirty summary of how I’d check if scale armour was medium or heavy, assuming aluminium scales and steel rings:
-
Turn it over, so you’re looking at the inside
-
See if I can stick my finger through to the scales without being stopped by the rings.
If yes, then it’s just medium. If no, probably heavy.
Ooh, interesting. I’ll have a play with that test at home.
Generally, I’d expect that if the armour’s lying flat then you couldn’t - in use the rings pretty much overlap - but if you picked it up and wiggled your finger round then you might be able to.
I had a steel butted hauberk that I sold to someone else after getting my rivetteed one. With his padded jack it was eveer so slightly too small, meaning if he flexed too much the rings would pop.
He could actual Hulk Out 
Really interesting thread.
I love the look of scale, and would really like to try and incorporate scale tassets into a suite of mixed plate over a mail haubergeon.
Any idea of what pattern to use for this, or how to ‘mount’ it?
I assumed hanging it from a belt worn over the mailshirt