Mundane remedies for Venom, Weakness and Shatter

Looking at the call effects and how they work interpreting a real-world kind of feel on the rules as written (something that would be dangerous in any situation rather than Empire, to which I note a rather more common sense approach). So I will fire away, if just to provide an opportunity for people tell me why my questions are stupid.

  1. Venom and Weakness:
    The rules state “lasts until cured.” My question is, can these ailments heal over time? If you are weakened or envenomed, might it be restored along with global hits after two hours (poison excepted) at the earliest, or at the next PD event at the latest?

  2. Shatter:
    The Mend spell obviously repairs shatter. Would it be reasonable to (either at an event or between events) to find, for example, a blacksmith, to repair said item using such old fangled techniques such as hammer and tongs?

My suspicion is no, but I wonder if it’s a point for discussion anyhow.

[size=150]I’m not Graeme[/size] but I think the answers are:

  1. No - and definitely 100% not in 2 hours along with hits
  2. No - ditto
  3. No - if it’s a magic item shattered with magic it is broken until you use magic to repair it

You get cursed with weakness or venom, you are screwed until magic or herbs (or what have you) are used to heal you.

I **AM **Graeme, and Andy is right on all points.

The thing with Mend is it’s a power only accessible to people who go on battlefields without armour or take specific anti-shatter weapons. Unlike any of the other cures it’s entirely magical. There’s no Oil of Mending to let Apothecaries fix things by potion, or an “Artificer Duct Tape” ability that lets someone with Artificer fix an item with 2 min roleplay. Shatter is an utter pain in the rear for PCs to face because few people want to play battlemages.

On the other hand, it’s also easier to deal with in a way because you can carry backup weapons. There was a discussion about this on the Marches FB group and a lot of the dislike for it was based around “well crap, now I need to leave my £100 halberd physrep up against a tree because there’s nobody nearby who can fix it”. Somehow I think that buying a wand of You Know Mending might work out well for non-com PCs for post-battle :slight_smile:.

Artificer is already arguably the best skill in the system, adding Duct Tape as well would seriously break it.

For mending, note that you can fluff non-battlefield repairs by leaving and returning to the IC area to fetch spare weapons from offscreen. Of course, magical items are a different matter.

But then it’s always a case of “pick what you want to resist” - if you are feel mend is your biggest problem, buy a polearm of self-repair instead of a polearm of extra strikedowns.

The mend ritual actually looks a lot better value for money than many of the other battlefield healing ones, just because you aren’t taking mulitple people completely out of battle if you wait for a good cost break. You can sit on your pile of useless shields till you get a good set then cast the ritual.

I have to say that the prospect of leaving a £100+ pole-arm by a tree is something which concerns me also. E1 (IIRC) I had to do that after a shatter with the pole-arm lent me by a friend during a retreat, so I had to retrieve it from GOD/monster, and it didn’t turn up for an hour or so, which was a little nerve-wracking.

Since my secondary weapon these days is a one-handed sword, if my pole-arm is shattered now I’ll just switch it to my off-hand if I need to do any fighting (and more likely spend my time looking for a mage).

Ideally I’ll get myself a self-repairing magic item sometime (but having a congregation makes acquiring the wealth/materials required to purchase one more challenging that with most other resources I think), but this is a decision driven by OC considerations of avoiding stress related to having ‘lost’ a quite expensive piece of kit rather than any particularly IC considerations.

I don’t want to complain too much though, pole-arms are really excellent in Empire and if the downside is being pressured into taking a particular magic item to assuage OC worries, I’ll find that rather mitigated by being 2-3 feet further away from the orcs than my fellow fighters :stuck_out_tongue:.

This works: your character gets a replacement item but you re-use the same phys-rep.

Often it would be nice for flavour and story if the character can get the thing mended, especially if the item holds some personal significance. Back in Anvil it shouldn’t be too hard to find a magician to do it for you.

It seems reasonable that magical mending will give better/cleaner results than non-magical.

Should non-magical mending be an option? Realistically, some badly broken things are not practical to mend by mundane means, and even those that are might take a lot of time in a workshop with proper tools and equipment… something to be done between events rather than at them. (I suppose it would do no harm to give artificers an ability to mend a shattered thing through eight hours of roleplayed mending or the Timeless Hammer Rhythm ritual. Almost no-one would use it.)

I see no problem with mundane mending of mundane items between events - “I reforged this sword of personal but not mechanical significance” seems fine to me. I also see the point of not allowing that for cases (mainly enchanted items) where it has mechanical significance.

I thought I’d mention SHATTER because OC things affect it the most. If you can afford to carry around a second weapon, the call becomes significantly less bad. I suspect if I start using a staff, I’ll get a sling for it in case it takes a SHATTER, so I can just stick it on my back.

We could probably do with an explicit rule about “picking up weapons from dead barbarians” in the Shatter rules section. You’ve dropped the barbarian who SHATTERED your magic greatsword. Turns out she’s unsurprisingly got a greatsword. You bend down, pretend to pick it up and then start using your own physrep as a non-magical greatsword.

1: Is that OK?

2: Can you then wander over to a PC with Mend and go “hey, I totally have my broken greatsword on my back or something, please mend it so that I can use this physrep as the weapon” ?

I’ve done “looting” before for non-magical weapons, but the presence of a magic item ribbon does confuse the issue.

How about this (something that happened recently) -

During a fighting withdrawal from a vale overrun with orcs your shield is shattered and the only mage able to mend it has run out of personal manna. However, you will be travelling together for a few days IC after timeout before your paths diverge. Can your shield be mended then?

This may all be below the abstraction layer, but we don’t want to be accused of cheating. :slight_smile:

Sounds as if the pieces fall to the ground, the orcs step over them as you back away, and you lose your shield.

If you’d won the fight and had the leisure to gather up the pieces afterwards, then my feeling is that mending the shield (with a mend-spell) between events would be perfectly reasonable. You could even run a tiny player event where all that happens is that someone casts mend on your shield. (See the rules for player events.)

Not quite how I understand the shatter rules, otherwise everyone with a magic shield/weapon would be screwed every time they had it shattered whilst on a linear/battle.

What I forgot to mention was that this was a magic shield…

Given that you can OC carry around the physrep of a shattered item (and transport it about IC, as implied by the flavour text for Blacksmith’s Wage), I think as long as you hold onto the item you can reasonably move it around, retreat with it, hand it off to another mid-battle to have them go find a mender, etc. It’s not shivered entirely to splinters, just broken into unusability.

Indeed there are a couple of magic items - the Blacksmith’s Wage linked there, and also a shield with a similar power (Burnished Rampart IIRC) - and a ritual that allow people to mend their own shattered equipment. That’d be a lot less good if shattered equipment was assumed lost.

(Those magic items are also the Sensible Exception to the general rule that magic items’ powers don’t work when shattered - you have to be wielding your Triumphant Blade to get the extra Hero Point from it, and you can’t wield a shattered weapon, but I’m pretty sure the magical power of the Blacksmith’s Wage is meant to do something. :stuck_out_tongue: )

[quote=“MorkaisChosen”]Indeed there are a couple of magic items - the Blacksmith’s Wage linked there, and also a shield with a similar power (Burnished Rampart IIRC) - and a ritual that allow people to mend their own shattered equipment. That’d be a lot less good if shattered equipment was assumed lost.

(Those magic items are also the Sensible Exception to the general rule that magic items’ powers don’t work when shattered - you have to be wielding your Triumphant Blade to get the extra Hero Point from it, and you can’t wield a shattered weapon, but I’m pretty sure the magical power of the Blacksmith’s Wage is meant to do something. :stuck_out_tongue: )[/quote]

They are, if you like, the exception which proves the rule :stuck_out_tongue: (in the correct sense of that phrase)

Of course, you should probably still hold and RP with it while you use the power, as opposed to just slinging it in a polearm carrier and assuming it’ll fix itself without intervention.

From the wiki:

So for the example given, I’d feel that if you carried you shield physrep off the battle field then getting it repaired between events if okay. Basically, what tea said.

[quote=“Darkness Visible”]From the wiki:

So for the example given, I’d feel that if you carried you shield physrep off the battle field then getting it repaired between events if okay. Basically, what tea said.[/quote]

That’s not really, “Basically, what tea said.” and it feels like you’re explicitly saying the opposite of what Graeme said.

You can carry the phys rep with you. Until it is explicitly repaired with magic, it remains broken.

Personally I dont see too much of a problem with an artisan being able to repair a mundane item on the IC field but not on the battlefield. After all mundane items are presumably beneath the abstraction layer and you can just “go and get another one from the baggage train”
Why would something like this be considered an imbalance?
Obviously having any old smith being able to reforge your sword of magic utter ming would not make sense but for your mundane sword or shield i dont see how it would be taking the piss.

So for the example given, I’d feel that if you carried you shield physrep off the battle field then getting it repaired between events if okay. Basically, what tea said.

That’s not really, “Basically, what tea said.” and it feels like you’re explicitly saying the opposite of what Graeme said.

You can carry the phys rep with you. Until it is explicitly repaired with magic, it remains broken.[/quote]

Rules are rules, and thats cool.

However from a world building point of view its pretty odd, and does’nt work well IC with me personally.
For example:

An artisan makes a magic sword clearly the artisan knows how to embue the magic to make the sword “work”.
Said sword later gets shattered, however that artisan cannot repair the sword? Why?
The artisan knows everything needed to create the sword, including the magic required.

Never sat well with me that.