Murder rules

If your character has reason to do so, can you kill a pc outside the battlefield-despite the in game legality?

Yes but the amount of people in anvil makes it very difficult to get away, the militia would be right behind you, you could claim sanctuary from a priest in a consecrated area but thats only an hour assuming they accept your reasons

A priest can also ask for clemency (https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Member_of_the_Synod#Clemency) at your trial to attempt to soften the sentence, but you’d better have a Virtuous reason for your actions for that to work.

There are other ways to destroy someone though, having them declared a sorcerer or heretic, having them removed from office, having a play or song written about them, whatever you can think of to deal with it. Or if it’s a straight up crime, report to the militia and help them catch your target.

From an OC point of view the is no mechanic that prevents you; there are no safe zones in the IC area. Just try to make it a good roleplay experience for you both, is a good rule of thumb.

2 Likes

You can… but it tends to be expensive and difficult depending on how/where/when you do it etc.

The game rules fully support it, but getting away with murder is not as easy. In the main field at Anvil, people frequently walk around unarmed and unarmoured because they’re generally safe.

But if you want to kill another character, it can be as simple as taking a weapon and brutally hacking them down when they least expect it. Combat rules still apply: they probably have two or three hits (if they’re not wearing armour), you can only do one damage per second, you can use CLEAVE or PARALYSE to make your job easier if you have those abilities.

You might find this in the FAQ worth a read: https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Is_PvP_murder_allowed.3F

1 Like

Also remember that even if you have cut them down and put them on their death count there is nothing to stop them screaming in pain, shouting for the militia or calling their mates, and there are methods to talk to the corpse and ask them who did the deed. So getting away with it is not easy!

How about poisons? Is there a lot of people that know the recipes so they can cure the victims? Otherwise that feels like the best way if you want to get away with it.

Last time I heard this come up, the wisdom granted was that Anvil is full of bored doctors because Anvil is tremendously safe. If someone gets poisoned the race to see who gets to cure them will resemble that strange tradition of chasing cheese down a hill.

If you’ve got a physician or two you want to bump off, though, the resultant swarm would be the perfect opportunity.

3 Likes

https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Potion#Poisons

Poison is possible, but not easy. The game mechanic is designed for this to be difficult (but not impossible).

There are a couple of horribly lethal poisons that you can use on PCs.

There are plans in place to deal with the usage of those poisons at Anvil. It does make it a race between “can we find someone capable of making the short-lifespan antidote and a cache of the antidote ingrediants before the poison kills them…”

I’d say that the most effective way to kill a PC legally is to have them declared as a heretic or sorcerer (or traitor to the Throne?), put forwards a Virtuous plea that it should be you who executes them, and then do so in front of a solemn crowd.

Killing a PC if you don’t intended to get away, or killing them illegally, or destroying them in every way other than physically… ah, that’s another kettle of fish.

But whatever you do, I’d advise having a chat with the victim player afterwards. Being murdered or executed CAN feel like the climactic finale of an awesome story. Or it can feel like someone smashing your sandcastle just to watch you cry. Try to make it the former.

4 Likes

I know about the poisons and the rules about them as I was thinking about getting the recipes myself. Feeding the poison to the victim would be tricky but the most important part is that no one cures them, however it feels like it shouldn’t be a very common recipe to have as it is rarely used

We had 2 characters* capable of making the poison and antidotes at a 90 person player event. Whether that is representative of the field as a whole I doubt but I suspect it wouldn’t be too hard to find someone, whether they would then have the necessary herbs and so on may be another question of course, but I wouldn’t rely on not being able to get the antidote in time.

*that admitted to being capable anyway, there was a magistrate involved.

1 Like

The short answer is yes you can, but please bear in mind the intended game design. Anvil is supposed to be a relatively safe place, and I like how you can choose the level of danger you want for your character, people who don’t like a risk of death can avoid the fights by simply not going through the Sentinel Gate. Playing a mugger will not make you IC or OOC popular.

However, that is not a free pass for people to be as provocative as they like and whine about people breaking the social contract if killed on Anvil. Targeted assassinations with a good reason are OOC fine, although I think it is preferred that you sort out your enemy by non-lethal means (removing them from an Imperial position being the obvious one) where possible.

1 Like

You’d have to do it within 15 minutes, it would have to given as a gift but the ref wandering about or sat there might be another suspicious that something is up.

The refs will use various methods to minimise the chance of this being an issue - IC costume, clever behaviour, etc. Most of us have reasonable amounts of experience with PVP hits in Empire and other games.

2 Likes

I’m sure I saw it on the wiki previously but cant seem to find it.
I was under the impression that if you set out to kill another player, you should have a ref with you as if there is any dispute as to a rules call or the validity of the hit (i.e - cheating or not understanding a call), a ref is there to confirm it. If this isn’t followed then PD would side with the target if this kind of issue came up.
Is this the case or have I taken it from another system.

I know but honestly, I don’t think that would be much of a problem and it would definitely be more subtle than just beating someone to death

Much more subtle until it all goes pear shaped and you have to cut your losses and run or just bundle the target. No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy and the target is likely to do/ have that one thing you didn’t plan for.
An example would be you’ve got your target on their own and plan to hit him with a paralyse then cleave and execute. The target doesn’t hear the call / is still under the impression heavy armour blocks it / thinks they can unstoppable when paralysed and starts running. A ref on the ground with you can police these intentional or unintentional cases of cheating. It also works the other way round if you miss a call etc. I guess it just allows these kinds of things to run much smoother.

1 Like

You’re right, Flash, it’s under Rules → Referees & GOD

https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Referee#When_to_get_a_Ref

Specifically, it is not the rule that you MUST get a ref before initiating combat, but it is strongly recommended because, as you noted, if there is any dispute or confusion then the balance of doubt will go to the defender if a ref was not present.

I’d like to believe most Empire players have schooled themselves to ignore refs and so the presence of one won’t tip people off. I also know a few of the refs and know how canny they are, so I also trust them to minimise the possibility.

2 Likes

That’s the one, thanks.