New Ref rules up

Wiki updated with new Ref rules.

Unless I’m missing something, it’s perfectly fine to wander down to the regio, cast your ritual and then whenever you can be bothered trot off to GOD or catch a ref if you catch one in the wild.

Well, that kind slashes the OOC botheration quite a bit…

Got a link? I’m not seeing any ref update on the player wiki.

There have been changes to the following page.
profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Referee

I believe the section in question is:

[quote=thewiki]Members of the GOD team may be able to help you with some of the following:
Process a ritual you have performed
It is better to get a ritual processed by one of the refs in the field, but if you are having problems then the GOD staff can help you find one or they may be able to process a ritual if no ref is available.[/quote]

I’m not sure I’d interpret it as perform the ritual, then go and sort out the OOC difficulties later. More that in the event the you can’t find a ref, and the god team can’t get one on radio one for you, they might be able to put it through.

profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Referee

Caught it in the Recent Changes history

profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Referee

I’d suspect the section that Vince is referring too is this one:

when to get a ref

Its states taht its best but not necessary to get a ref before performing these actions. I suspect that larger rituals would definitely need a ref first as my experience (Saker big Winter rituals) is the refs will want to abuse character with traumatic wounds… I mean give feedback to you on the ritual :laughing:. I doubt someone doing a small level enchantment would need to get a ref beforehand, just do it and let the refs know it’s been done.

Y’know it would be brilliant if you could text a ref with what ritual you’ve done and who one for simple small scale buffs.

ah dam ninja’d

There are some fairly specific rules about what rituals you can be sure of casting without a ref at profounddecisions.co.uk/empi … ld_Rituals - I think people should be wary of reading too much into the inclusion in a bulletted list in light of this…

Chessy - those are battlefield ritual rules and have little relevance to rituals on the field. Sure, it makes clear on teh battle what you do / do not need a ref for, but for field rituals - the new page is the one and only bible.

Edit to add… To me it’s a clear decision to divorce reffing rituals from mandatory to desirable option. Interesting choice, but I can see the logic.
If that’s not the intent - then all it takes is so to move ‘Performing a ritual’ from the normal text ‘you do not need but is advised’ two lines up and bokded into the the ‘you must have a ref for…’.

I think “Process a ritual you have performed” needs a quick clarification …

it means “pick up your herbs / ribbons / mana” not “do the ritual then go to GOD”.

(EDIT) Also we’re aware of the shocking number of places we’ve just assumed people will guess waht is going on, like with rituals. We had a good laugh that the wiki appears to not tell you how you do downtime or even what it is, despite the fact some of our players apparently never did Maelstrom (inorite? Crazy!)

Yeah - my reading of the page was that it might as well have contained “You no longer require a referee to cast ritual magic” at the top in bold. I suspect that’s not the intention! :slight_smile:

I read that totally differently,
for the stuff that could go horribly wrong, then yes, get a ref… but for the smaller stuff like a new testimony or a willing ‘Secrets of the Empty Heart’ then you can just do it and let a ref know later on,

then again, I’m not a magic user and haven’t read all the pages on the subject in any great detail.

I do not believe we have changed any rules about when you require a referee to cast a ritual, or process any other skills.

If such changes were implemented, they would be explicitly called out on the rules update page.

We are currently in the process of reformatting the rules on the wiki to make them easier to read and understand, which is why the referee page has just appeared, and the phrasing is a bit different from previous pages.

I suggest want you want is a line stating ‘Before any effects from a ritual can be inacted, the ritual must be recorded by a referee’.

That covers that you don’t need a Ref before you cat herd all your participants together, gather your materials, do your roleplay etc. but will need one before you walking off into the distance assuming you’ve got +5 hits.

In my experience, a large fraction of the rituals I process show incorrect arithmetic or another error somewhere - whether someone hasn’t computed scaling properly, or they’ve missed exactly how mastery works, or their target has given the wrong CID and we’re now trying to get the fleet buff ritual cast on their dead character’s mine.

Getting the rules faff sorted beforehand resolves so much of that sort of stuff, so wherever possible I’m in favour of keeping the requirement to have a ref before you do your ritual.

I’ll make a note to chase down Matt, clarify what the exact situation should be, and get the page updated to make that clearer.

It can be useful. At E4 last year I needed to identify an item (Reading The Weave) in camp while one of the battles was happening. So rather than waiting for the refs to be free, I did my RP, told the other players “I’m going to need to think about this for a while” and took the ribbon to GOD to hand in my mana and get the answer.

I should probably stress that I was solo casting (so did not need to faff about with contributors), did not need to use the regio, and the phys rep for the target item was nicely portable. But in the right circumstances it can save a lot of time for players AND refs. This just clarifies something that some of us were already doing on an ad-hoc basis…

Quite often if we are doing something like Twilight Masquerade, with a solo ritualist; we’ll do the RP and process it at GOD so we can also go OOC to do the make up; otherwise we’re pulling Refs away for something we are going off field for anyway

Again, for those saying ‘these are new rules’ - I do not believe these are new rules.

Nothing has been told to us the refs about anything changing for how people do rituals on the field.

Nothing has been put on the Rules update page.

The rules pages are being reformatted, but that’s not the same as rules being changed.

Unless an announcement like that comes out, please do not assume you don’t need a ref to do rituals (apart from the explicitly listed battlefield rituals, on the battlefield).