Question on income?

Highly Unscientific; but I wonder how many players consider thier character to be wealthy, and where do you draw that line?

I generally assume every player character to be solidly in the ‘wealthy’ tier of society. Every PC runs a business, or has the income from a mine, or has a full unit of soldiers under their command, etc etc.

Within the Empire, I agree; we are all wealthy. Who else could afford the time off to travel all the way down here?

There are clearly tiers within Anvil though, and if you are counting in crowns you are well off, and if you are counting in thrones you are definitely wealthy (in my head).

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We are wealthy… but booze costs more than mana crystals…

:astonished:
Either you’re really good at finding mana crystals, or really bad at finding booze.

:slight_smile:

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I think once you have the proceeds of one season as disposable cash: typically just over a throne in kind (from fleet/mine/garden) you are pretty well set financially.

My character is a merchant and I personally expect the following and can adjust prices accordingly. This is all a relative scale at Anvil formed from only a year of gameplay. I’ve met people all the way along this scale, but as we know: generalisations are generally wrong.

New player/abject poverty: Less than a throne in total assets, 18 rings spending money. You buy drinks and snacks IC but other than that tend to directly barter everything else.

Lower income: You have a throne in spending money, you can buy a season’s income from a resource (mana fluctuations not withstanding). You may have a single low-level magical item which you had to save for over a short period.

Middling: You have 4-5 thrones ready cash. You have enough money to cover all IC expenses for food and entertainment. Importantly you can also now make opportunity purchases of resources when the market presents good prices, or buy in bulk for discounts. You dream of touching a wain of a rare material. You may even win the occasional bid at the auction, but don’t count on it. You can self-fund the occasional magical item.

Well-off: You have 5-50 thrones in cash or assets. You regularly wear ribbons and the auctioneers may know your name. You may sometimes buy rare resources and have upgraded your own. You can pool with others to obtain a Bourse seat if your group is large enough. At this point you probably have assets in the form of loans too, lending to newer players to help them start off or financing other ventures. You don’t flinch when the collection plate comes round at an Imperial event.

Ludicrous: You have assets of 50-500+ thrones. You probably own a Bourse seat or your group frequently does. You have enough money to worry about being a target of theft and so stop talking about it much. A personal resource over level 5 is likely. You generally buy and sell from the traders who walk around selling only rare resources. You frequently win lots at auction and are on first name familiar terms with the auctioneer. You are now able to finance senate motions yourself if pressed, but most likely have reinvested into your group and operate as a cooperative of sorts.

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Crucially, social and political status, personal influence and personal power are, of course, all separate from income (most of the time - obvs Bourse positions etc link rather directly). Someone can be at Strawberryshort’s Abject Poverty tier of wealth (which is probably ‘fairly well off’ in context of the wider world, compared to Joe Q Random the farmhand) and still be one of the most powerful people in the Empire, whose very word sends armies marching or eldritch beings scurrying to obey.

Good point, my scale is very much related to others at Anvil and from a trader’s point of view. The meritocratic/democratic nature of the Empire means these people can definitely have disproportionate power. So much is down to roleplay, my character has a fleet of riverboats but turned up to anvil with 18 rings. I never roleplayed him as poor.

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If three rings is a beer, then that makes it around about one GBP per ring (your GBP mileage may vary in regards beer).

Isca had sworn a Vate oath never to use magic or the realms for personal gain, so she’d only ever use her mana on rituals to benefit nation and empire, and wouldn’t even think of selling it. She paid for the odd bag of fudge, and that was it.

The flip side of being a Vate is that the nation is meant to support you, so when she needed a magic item she got it free no questions asked, because people knew she wouldn’t be asking if it wouldn’t have wider benefits.

Isca always wore hand-me-downs, and didn’t own more than she could carry. But she knew that almost everywhere in the Empire she’d get a meal and a dry place to sleep just for the asking, in case they needed a Vate in a hurry some time in the future. She had the confidence that comes with knowing she’d got her own personal army if she needed it. There were a few times IC I did that - yelled ‘Thorns! I need twenty of you, bring weapons, right now, Vate stuff!’ - and people went along with it before they knew why.

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I like strawberryshort’s scale - I’m starting out as a merchant character and the ‘dreams of an imperial resource’ is where I was on Friday night at my first Bourse Auction… hopes were quickly dashed however when the price of white granite came up!

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Hmmm I think that doesn’t take into account that the average business or farm owner is only pulling in 9 Crowns, those are well off people out there in the world. Just possibly not in the wain commodities market at Anvil, that’s a strange bubble of it’s own.

Well the guideline given on the currency page:

[quote]A ring generally represents a suitable payment for a minor task, or the cost of an item such as a simple meal or a bottle of wine or beer. Citizens who deal mostly in rings tend to be towards the bottom of the economic pile.

A crown is a more significant expenditure; a fine meal or a bottle of wine from a prestigious vinyard might cost a crown. Citizens who deal mostly in crowns tend to be wealthy - they are often business owners, or run a prosperous farm.

A throne is a serious expenditure; the movers and shakers of the Empire deal in Thrones for preference. The Imperial Senate particularly deals in Thrones. Anyone making transactions in Thrones is considered to be among the richest people in the Empire.[/quote]

As others have said, it’s important to remember that the Anvil summit represents the meeting of a thousand people who are some of the most powerful and wealthy in an Empire very roughly the size of Europe with millions of citizens.

The “Income” (be it 18 rings or 180 rings) represents the profit and spending money for the character

Costs are vastly inflated in Anvil, because player characters are willing to pay for them.

Somewhat problematic guideline because in Empire, the relative difference in the cost of a beer in Anvil to a house is far less than in our economy.

[quote=“Kingreaper”]

:astonished:
Either you’re really good at finding mana crystals, or really bad at finding booze.

:slight_smile:[/quote]

may not have been being serious :wink:… but it does illustrate that booze is completely over priced 3 rings is too much … 1 ring is… if really rich people have 6 rings disposable income per month…

But the booze for sale at the event is specialist luxury booze imported specially to Anvil. You can get cheap IC booze, but you have to provide the physrep for that yourself.

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The money you have at an event is what you have left over after paying for your three months of living expenses (including food and drink), costs of running your personal resource, buying basic weapons and armour and equipment, etc etc - ie you probably have more than 6 rings disposable income per month but, as standard you, well, dispose of most of it at times other than Anvil.

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[quote=“neb”]

:astonished:
Either you’re really good at finding mana crystals, or really bad at finding booze.

:slight_smile:

may not have been being serious :wink:… but it does illustrate that booze is completely over priced 3 rings is too much … 1 ring is… if really rich people have 6 rings disposable income per month…[/quote]

Consider the likely price of booze at the bar at the G8 summit.

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Remember that a character has 18r + 180r of disposable income in three months. That’s quite a few pints.

I like that as a new player after my first event I count as well off by your reckoning. My Ic aim was to make as much money as possible and came away with more than sixteen thrones

Well I am very pleased for you, very impressed, and a tiny bit jealous. I hope you had fun doing it too! How did you manage it?

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