Regions and Territories

There are a number of changes going on on the wiki about the difference between a Region and a Territory. I’m not sure if the distiction was made plain before and I’m not sure where it is explicitly stated.
Do I have these the right way around:

The League is a Nation,
Holberg is a Territory, not currently part of the League due to a small Druj infestation,
Ennerlund is a Region, currently in Holberg.

Also, does this mean that the Strategic game is being widened to plot armies on the Regional basis?
And if so, will the regional plotting of Personal Resources follow?

Given the resource boosters which required resources in the same region now need same territory I assume not.
The Spring War boosting spells are suddenly a lot more far reaching, targetting territories not regions.
Thunderous Tread of the Trees is still unclear as to what it does and underwhelming, (1000 strong army attacks are pretty weak, even with the forest and siege related keywords)

[quote=“Vaan”]There are a number of changes going on on the wiki about the difference between a Region and a Territory. I’m not sure if the distiction was made plain before and I’m not sure where it is explicitly stated.
Do I have these the right way around:

The League is a Nation,
Holberg is a Territory, not currently part of the League due to a small Druj infestation,
Ennerlund is a Region, currently in Holberg.

Also, does this mean that the Strategic game is being widened to plot armies on the Regional basis?
And if so, will the regional plotting of Personal Resources follow?[/quote]

As the changes are WiP I would avoid reading too much into them too quickly - however, I suspect that they are more a case of tidying things up to make sure that the terminology is consistent and reflects what was intended (I seem to recall a comment towards the end of last year to the effect that region and territory had not been used consistently when the wiki was originally written). I may, of course, be wrong :open_mouth:

Looks to me that you have the terminology right - although I understand it more correct to say that the territory of Holberg is lost to the Empire and League because more than half the regions that make up the territory have been conquered by the enemy. A small barbarian “infestation” is not enough to lose a territory - and it’s more than a “small infgestation” anyway :laughing:

That makes a lot of sense. I shall sit back and hope there’s a #Raffsex post on this at some point.

I may be guilty of underplaying the complexities of the matter.
Besides, it is a minor infestation compared to Reikos! :wink:

[quote=“Taxellor”]The Spring War boosting spells are suddenly a lot more far reaching, targetting territories not regions.
Thunderous Tread of the Trees is still unclear as to what it does and underwhelming, (1000 strong army attacks are pretty weak, even with the forest and siege related keywords)[/quote]

I’m not sure what you’re worried about. Rivers Run Red was cast on all of Skarsind at the first event (by the enemy), so the “territory” area of effect (for it and Rivers of Life) is in keeping with historical occurance. The fortification ritual affects a Region (as all forts do) and Foam and Spittle hits a territory, but only affects Navies… which explains why there aren’t many Navies around.
My opinion on Thunderous Tread and how to use it is IC, but in part depends on whether (as a curse with a year duration) it renews that 1000-point army every season and/or whether it actually has the keywords or is “especially effective” beyond them. :smiley:

hey up! I’m doing the changes as I slowly work through my job list from the ref meeting.

Vaan’s breakdown of nation/territory/region is correct. There’s a “division” above Nation (which is Empire), but only a tiny handful of rituals that care about that so we should ignore it.

Initially, we intended for players to assign their personal resources to regions - we envisioned a much more tactical (strategic?) game. After further work, however, we decided that it was an unneccessary level of fiddliness to make every player pick not only the territory but the region within that territory. If we had an unlimited pool of talent, money and time we’d have little clicky maps like wot you see on computer games - sadly we don’t.

It’s not ideal - it means that sometimes we’ll rely on players to contact us and say things like “we roleplay our resources are all in Hoboken and Hoboken has been taken by the orcs what should we do?” but it makes the game easier to run, and easier for new players to get started and understand what’s going on.

I prefer it because I think it makes the magic more significant - previously, some of the powerful rituals would probably effect two or three people. Now they have the potential to effect a third of the players in a nation. It also makes much more sense for them to have far-reaching effects on barbarian territories, while also giving us much more freedom to make quests to go and cast them given the quest could go anywhere in the territory. That’s mostly a plot bonus, I’ll grant you.

The changes still need to be signed off definitively by Graeme (He Drops Rules Like A Baws), but I don’t think the costs or gross effects are likely to change.

The eagle-eyed among you may also notice that some of the rituals (Thunderous Tread of Trees is one of them) now have a category called “Warfare.” At some point in the next week or so we’ll have a look over them all and decide if we need to change the values involved. Between you and me, it’s mostly happened because we didn’t have the Campaign military stuff totally concrete by the first event - we knew roughly how it was meant to work and the values involved, but the stuff that went up just after E2 (I think it was) brought some of the warfare rituals into question.

PERSONAL OPINION INCOMING: I think Thunderous Tread of the Trees as it currently stands is a bit … unsatisfying. I’d like to see it buffed "up a bit, possibly with a variable to allow more oompf, possibly with a keyword or two to support the “dangerous to forts” bit. Given it’s basically a little natural disaster, I think it could do with a bit of bite to it. We’ll see what happens though.

I suspect I might expand this post into a #miniblog if I have enough to say on the topic. Or can roll it in with a chat about the stuff the boss has been working on while he’s allegedly on holiday in York

Edit to Add

I prefer to say that the territory of Holberg is lost to the Empire mumble mumble because they do not yet control half the regions that make up the territory. It’s worth noting that if they did control half the regions but not all of them, the region would be Imperial but Contested - which has some implications for certain Campaign actions and events (repairing armies mostly iirc without the rules in front of my eyes)

[quote=“Andy Raff”]

Edit to Add

I prefer to say that the territory of Holberg is lost to the Empire mumble mumble because they do not yet control half the regions that make up the territory. It’s worth noting that if they did control half the regions but not all of them, the region would be Imperial but Contested - which has some implications for certain Campaign actions and events (repairing armies mostly iirc without the rules in front of my eyes)[/quote]

That’s the one - an army can naturally resupply if it is in an Imperial controlled territory that has no enemy armies in it.

It may be slightly different for emergency resupply depending on how you look at the wiki wording - which reminds me I meant to ask for clarification on that :smiley:

This is where the potential for Thunderous Tread lies… a gaggle of Angry Ents disrupting your supply lines and denying your armies natural resupply (and unopposed movement) for a whole bloody year.
The downside is that (as written and assuming it obeys the usual rules) two standing armies will stomp it flat within a season.

I think the wording could be clearer, but I struggle to see a point in emergency resupply if it can’t be done in, well, emergency situations. :wink: