Ritual magnitude reducers - do they stack?

If you have 2 covens, both under the influence of crystalline focus of Aesh, and the archmages regalia, do all three of the reductions apply to make a -30 ritual magnitude. 1 focus and the regalia for -20, only only the highest reduction for -10 since they’re all the same?

The usual PD / empire ruling is…

Identicle efects do not stack.
Anything that looks like you’re taking the pi~~ with the ‘mechanical’ rules probably won’t work.

But I’m not connected with PD in any way, best to email.

PS Taking the Pi~~ purely IC is to be encouraged.

My guess is that the Crystalline Foci of Aesh don’t stack with each other, as they’re the same effect, so you only get -10 from that. But I suspect that the -10 from the Archmage’s chain does stack as it’s a magic item source rather than another enchantment. So my guess is you get -20 in total.

I don’t know specifically about the two covens thing.

The archmage chain of ritual reduction does stack with crystalline focus, to my knowledge. I believe that one has been done on the field.

My gut feeling is that both rituals click as well, so you get a -30 magnitude reduction overall. After all, Crystalline focus isn’t about making the ritual easier, it’s about making the coven more skilful temporarily - so both covens being more skilful should combine usefully.

Use the belt in addition, and I think you can get -10 per coven, and an additional -10 on top, if you’re willing to spend enough mana.

However, email empire.rules@ for a firm call from Graeme.

I shall email Graeme :slight_smile:

I can’t see much widespread abuse potential, 32 isn’t a trivial magnitude if day isn’t your primary lore, and crystalline focus won’t stack with standing at the threshold so this is both your casts for the day, so it’s day magnitude 80+ rituals, or Clarity :smiley: or letting a pair of day covens hit mid/high secondary rituals.

[quote=“Ariadne”]I shall email Graeme :slight_smile:

I can’t see much widespread abuse potential, 32 isn’t a trivial magnitude if day isn’t your primary lore, and crystalline focus won’t stack with standing at the threshold so this is both your casts for the day, so it’s day magnitude 80+ rituals, or Clarity :smiley: or letting a pair of day covens hit mid/high secondary rituals.[/quote]

OK, imagine a coven capable of throwing Day 32 and Spring 60 in a nation with say four other Day 32 covens, each of which has someone in with one point in every ritual lore; imagine further that the nation has gone collectively insane and doesn’t care about the sheer ludicrous inefficiency of this.

(Not that I know any covens capable of throwing Day 32 and Spring 60.)

With Focus from all five covens and the use of the Archmage’s Chain and the Archmage’s Belt, the Spring 60 coven can drain six coven bonds and an eye-watering 110 mana to cast Thunderous Tread of the Trees at Spring 120.

I mean, I’m not sure it’s broken because you just ate 30 people’s entire day and enough mana to show up on the Imperial balance of payments in return for one highly situational territory curse. In fact such roleplay might even be entertaining. But it’s enabled by this ruling.

I think the limitation in coven slots per day makes this not-broken.

If it helps, we cast Knights of Glory last season with a bunch of bonusses all of which stacked. None were that ritual you mention but there was, for example, the Archmage tat that reduce the mag, a boon from an Eternal, a temporary mastery for some of the coven members, all our Artisan bling, etc. etc. So I’m with Tea on this one. Obviously, email for definitive response.

If you factor in joining together the covens, it actually works out less efficient than plans along the lines of recruiting a swarm of mages* who don’t know the ritual (or realm) and then using Syphon of the stars (and you could theoretically do that twice in one day.)

*Practicality also be dammed.

If it’s possible, and I’m still waiting for Graeme to say, then at absolute worst I think there are maybe 5 covens in Urizen who could hit the day lore with restructuring to master crystalline focus, and I’m not entirely certain we’ve got that.

So, we could maybe pull 60 magnitudes of any lore once an event with an insane amount of coordination and mana. Which is powerful, but crucially there are single covens in pretty much every lore who can pull that now.

It might let us hit a horribly inefficient mag 260 clarity, but that’s only because an efficient mag 200 should come into range this year, possibly even this event if we can shake a few more mastered casters out of the Urizen trees.

The Empire stacking rules in general are that you can’t stack the same thing in the same slot on the same target.

So if I have a +1 lore enchantment, I can’t have a second +1 lore enchantment. But my mate can also have a +1 lore enchantment, and we can both have +1 lore potions, and perform a ritual together at +4 lore.

This case is a touch unclear, but I believe that Crystalline Focus targets the coven bond of the coven which perform it, not the ritual they perform which is reduced by it. And so I don’t see any clash with multiple covens having it active on the same ritual, each one independently reducing it by 10.

That’s the reason for my opinion, anyway.

[quote=“McGonigle”]

If you factor in joining together the covens, it actually works out less efficient than plans along the lines of recruiting a swarm of mages* who don’t know the ritual (or realm) and then using Syphon of the stars (and you could theoretically do that twice in one day.)

*Practicality also be dammed.[/quote]

You don’t join the covens, you use the Archmage belt to collect them together once that event. Much simpler.

I’m thinking along the same lines Tea, but wondering if they’d all apply to the base magnitude, so three independent effects all reduce the base magnitude by 10 but aren’t cumulative because they all act on the same base magnitude. If the wording on crystalline focus was “raises the power of the coven by 10 magnitude” then it would be clear :slight_smile:

And using the belt makes your ritual lead cry, as they suddenly have to ad lib an extra 10 minutes on the ritual casting time :F

's easy, you just introduce every member of each coven and ask them if they are a manaholic.

One question: Could you use more than one seprents stone in a ritual?

I think you can use one per magician, but that’s not completely explicit. It’s in line with most other consumable lore boosters, though.

Tonics are explicit about not stacking.
Lore boosts aren’t explicit:

profounddecisions.co.uk/empi … t_Essences

(I’d assume a serpent stone followed similar rules)

On one hand, it makes sense that one lore boost from potions is a sensible limit.
On the other, if someone’s prepared to eat 10 serpent stones (at around 150 thrones of materials, not to mention the 10 instances of herding cats) just to pull off a hundred magnitude ritual solo… well, yeah.

(Similar rationale applies to the lore potions - they’re cheaper, but you’d still need quite a large stack to supercharge… )

It would actually be huge if you could take more than N potions with N ritualists. For one thing it would take my personally soloable magnitude from 18 to about 36 - I think that if I were to guess, I’d be guessing that you couldn’t stack them.

Allowing people to stack potions removes a lot of the lore limits in the system - it becomes a resource-herding and efficiency question, not “can we do this at all?”

I don’t believe that’s the intent.

I’m pretty sure we had stated that you can’t apply the same buff to the same thing multiple times.

So, I think you could have a staff, ring, potion and serpent stone for a total possible +9… But if you were doing that I’d expect you to be using the archmages chain in place of the ring because we’re into crazy numbers :wink:

This reminds me I never did get an answer from Graeme, so I’ll chase and ask if serpents stones stack with lambent essences ;D

You get a friend to use the archmage’s chain for you, while you personally are bonded to your ring.

[quote=“MorkaisChosen”]Allowing people to stack potions removes a lot of the lore limits in the system - it becomes a resource-herding and efficiency question, not “can we do this at all?”

I don’t believe that’s the intent.[/quote]

This.

I am 99%* certain that you cannot stack multiple potions, or multiple serpent’s stones, on one ritualist.

You can absolutely have multiple in a ritual, one per ritualist.

As an aside, this is how I feel the Crystalline Focus ritual works with webbed covens - each coven can have one, and only one, Crystalline focus active on it at a time. Similarly, each ritualist can have a lore boost enchantment on themselves - but only one.

*I am only not 100% certain because I’m not Graeme. I would give decent odds that you can consume both a serpent’s stone and a realm potion, though.