Throwing Weapons in Empire LARP

Hi,
What sorts of Throwing Weapons exist in Empire?
In terms of rules, national backgrounds, and phys-reps actually existing.

For example: do throwing arrows exist?

Also, do they cause Impale like arrows? (Since they look just like arrows, I would guess they have to?)

Thrown weapons are javelins, axes, etc. They must be lrp-safe as a throwing weapon, at least 8" long, and do 1pt of damage when thrown by a character with the thrown weapon skill.

You cannot hand throw an arrow for IMPALE, or even for single. If you throw arrows you will be banned from fighting by battle refs. Don’t throw arrows.

National background wise, several call out javelins - Highguard in particular springs to mind.

That makes sense.

For reference:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_arrow
(Throwing arrows are not just an arrow that someone throws: they are their own design.)

edit for clarity
But these are not allowed, cool.

In Empire, that sort of thing is called a Javelin, needs to be weapon-safe like a javelin, and does single.

Looking at potentially making some Foam Rocks for throwing.

But also looking at the potential of using a Catapult.

Would this sort of repurposed waterballoon catapult be okay and what skills would be required?

Thank you in advance. :slight_smile:

Note that a rock does not qualify as a “weapon” and therefore a physrep of a rock can’t be used to deal damage in Empire. It’d have to be 8" long minimum, as well.

Has anyone considered fitting discus into an Empire nation-brief?

I ask because of physics.
Because it’s much easier to make a discus phys rep that’s safe and flies than it is to make a javelin phys rep safe.

It is exactly the same effect that made javelins so effective in the real world.

Though I can foresee a problem with making a discus physrep that flies like a discus and not like a Frisbee.

Dre, thanks for the clarification, but it hasn’t answered my question.

Yes, the rules on thrown state:

[

](http://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Combat_skills#Thrown)
So any Rock or Sling load would need a minimum 8" diameter.
However, it does not address my question regarding the potential use of a Catapult.

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/Img/Dyn/Cache/Products/32882-240314171910-989583902.jpg

[ul]]Would the use of a waterballoon catapult be okay?/:m]]If okay, what skills would be required?/:m]]Would the skills be needed by all 3 people crewing?/:m][/ul]

in terms of using a catapult no one here will be able to give you a official or definite answer here, your only course would be to e-mail PD at empire.rules@profounddecisions.co.uk as I’m guessing that even if they do allow it. it would be on a case by case bases and would need to see it in person.

For the catapult you need two separate questions answered.

1/ is it appropriate for the setting? which needs an email to PD

2/ is it safe ? for which you need to take it to the weapon checkers on the field.

I am not a PD staff member, but I would say no.
Don’t waste your time trying to weasel weapon forms into the game that are not explicitly laid down in the rules.

Arkat,
Discus? Just No.

Never used as a battlefield weapon, for good reasons.

It is pretty much always worth asking PD about things like ‘can I use this catapult’.

It is somewhat unlikely that any siege weaponry would be approved outside setpieces (as there are deliberately no general rules for them) but you might be able to adapt your idea to make a cool prop or contribute to a cool battle set up.

Water balloon catapults are pretty unlikely to get approval as a weapon (although you might be able to get approval to bring one as a novelty item which is actually a water balloon catapult IC…) - previous PD games have featured ballista-style siege weapons which are basically just mounted LARP bows / crossbows, but have always had ref-called intervention required for catapult/treb style weapons rather than allowing them to fire actual projectiles.

But asking by email (probably best to empire.rules@profounddecisions.co.uk) is worth doing and might well get you some way of using your ideas / props even if they aren’t ‘have your own siege weapon’.

Well it was a sport item by 783 BC [first Olympiad] and presumably completely replaced in war by javelins long berofe that date.
Further reading… yeah it was probably replaced by throwing spears before war was a real concept.
heh Feni maybe.

Chris, CheesyPig & Arkat, thanks for the help and advice, it’s much appreciated.
I’ll pop a mail to PD :slight_smile:

[ul]]I’m not wasting my time, I’m putting in a legitimate query/:m]]The rules are on a wiki as a living document. They’re constantly evolving. Case in point, we now have rules for Naval Warfare which were not explicitly laid out in the rules. /:m]]Players are able to develop their own rituals rather than the formulaic list set out on the Wiki. The system is designed to evolve. If we don’t ask we don’t know/:m]]Last year there was a War Rhino. It’s a weapons form not explicitly mentioned in the rules, and has never been used on a ‘real’ battlefield, for good reasons*. Still in the game though. :slight_smile:/*:m][/ul]

As for trying to Weasel something into the game?
You don’t like the idea? Fine. No need for name calling. :smiley:

To be fair, slingshot, pebbles and rocks have been weapons since the earliest civilisations.
Upscale a pebble to 8" across and you get a discus. I wouldn’t necessarily say it needs adding to a Nations background as a weapon of choice. I know Eldritch (among others) have done frisbee style saw blades as thrown weapons (essentially oversized shuriken), which fly well and are better than most of the throwing daggers I’ve seen. Only downside is they’re a swine to carry around and draw quickly.

[quote=“Arkat”]Well it was a sport item by 783 BC [first Olympiad] and presumably completely replaced in war by javelins long berofe that date.
Further reading… yeah it was probably replaced by throwing spears before war was a real concept.
heh Feni maybe.[/quote]

The closest weapon is the chakram, attested in Indian martial arts basically since people started throwing things at other things (Vishnu has one in the Ramayana, for example).

I’m not sure that my mental image of any Imperial army contains war chakrams, but if it could be safely physrepped according to the laws of coolthenticity then it would be kind of a fun thing to give to one specific foreign nation (Faraden?)

[quote=“Iulian”]
I’m not sure that my mental image of any Imperial army contains war chakrams, but if it could be safely physrepped according to the laws of coolthenticity then it would be kind of a fun thing to give to one specific foreign nation (Faraden?)[/quote]

Freeborn might use one, on the basis of “something shiny I picked up in a foreign port…” But I can’t see them being MADE by any Imperial nation.

youtube.com/watch?v=B_cX1SwiC1Y

While I think it would be very cool to have catapult/trebuchet lobbing large sofa cushion rocks on the battlefield I would postulate that it is unlikely.
While dropping foam footballs or open cell “rocks” onto people is probably as safe as any other LARP missile weapon I would think that the equipment itself is probably what would be objected to.
From my (limited) exposure to siege engines in re-enactment they are very tightly policed in that the crews are very careful as the forces required to hurl something any reasonable distance can be harmful to the operatives (limbs of a catapult moving, weight on a trebuchet etc)
If we put into the equation people attempting to take out said war machines we have the potential for injury as the battle flows over the machine of people getting hurt as the catapult arm smacks them in the face or the trebuchet weight drops on them.
As far as alternatives to current thrown weapons go I’m not sure that anything other than the coreless daggers, axes, hammers or the lightweight cored/coreless javelins would fit in with the pseudo dark age through to medieval European feel of the game. Thus while I have various coreless throw safe props (toad, brain, grenade & brick) that are all over 8 inches I wouldn’t expect to use them as the feel is not right. Same for a discus.
I’m not responsible for the game however so a caveat of if PD say it’s OK then its OK and I’m talking bollocks applies

We built a LARP safe Catapult for the Gathering a few years back and I know my brother (an engineer) is keen to dust it off and improve the design with the intention of bringing it along as his ‘monster’ weapon! Serren makes a very good point re: the safety of the actual weapon rather than the ammo… Such a weapon would probably require a dedicated ref as a 2.5m throwing arm hitting someone in the head will ruin their day. That said, i don’t think it’s inherently more (or less) unsafe than pretty much any other LARP weapon if used sensibly.

I think we can sum up this by saying that there are no criteria by which PD become obliged to allow you to use a siege engine at Empire.
The only thing you can do is to talk to them by email about being allowed to bring it to an event in order to undergo a controlled trial of the final construct in which you might be allowed to take it on the field after they’ve had time to meditate on a) the health and safety restrictions on its use, b)it’s immediate effects and consequences, and c) how it can be transported when players and/or monsters inevitably knick it
That being said, go for it. The worst they can say is no… Er, well from a Player perspective the worst they can say is “Can we borrow that for the next battle.” Perhaps that’s a different definition of worst.

As for the use of a Xena-style Chacram or Discus, I’d say it’s certainly no worse than beating someone to death with the Duck-on-a-Stick the Archmage of Summer got issued with. This is larp, there are silly weapons all over the place.