Ancient History

Some of the recent fluff has had me pondering and I am wondering who i should talk to with regards pre-imperial history… Specifically when Wintermark was traditionally founded? Dates are not actually given anywhere I can find them, infact the best i could glean was that: “While the first few decades of the new nation were tumultuous, by the time of the First Empress the Winterfolk had learnt the strength that comes from standing together.” So… are we actually talking mere decades or forgotten centuries here? Even such vague an answer would be helpful, my first inclination was to talk to our Egrigore but they only came into being with the Empires foundation so I am not sure how reliable they would be and I don’t know that the Civil Service cares for such things?

Well, you could get some historical research commissioned by the Senate, but that seems a little overkill for what you’re looking for.
Without wanting to cross the IC/OC divide too far, there do exist True Liao visions in pre-imperial periods, many of which can be accurately dated. So speaking to a gatekeeper/ gatekeeper’s proxy/anyone else who’s bothered to look at the records that the gatekeepers keep might be able to help you.
On a more arcane route, the Eternals are almost certainly older than the empire, so you might try getting an an answer out of a select few of them. Sounds like a day kinda question to me, but you’d want to find a more knowledgeable person in the field.
Hope this helps! (the middle option looks fun (Winks))

Ooh, also, I’m pretty sure some of the orc tribes has been at war with Wintermark on and off longer than Wintermark has existed, so you might be able to get an answer from a barbarian or foreigner orc. Not 100% sure on the fact surrounding that though.

Nobody is too sure about a lot of history, because Emperor Nicovar went a bit odd and burned down the libraries.

Perhaps so but it’s hard to burn the kind of Oral History which predominates in Wintermark so I would expect to get some sort of answer from a Scop… unfortunately, they too are players and will (probably) struggle to confirm anything more than is on the Wiki :frowning:

All the people who knew anything about the oral histories of the nation were presumably also burned to the ground by Nicovar.

Or they can just make something up that sounds suitable and then you run with it. Oral history is unrelaible after all :sunglasses:

There have been three arrivals of humans in what’s now the Empire since the fall of Terunael: the Highborn, about 700 years ago (so somewhere over 300 years before the Empire was founded); and some time after that, the Dawnish, and the Vard/Steinr.
Based on that, the founding of Wintermark was probably 200-300 years before the founding of the Empire.

If you analyse the info available on the wiki, you can work out a rough order for the appearance of different groups.

Exact dates will be harder to figure out - perhaps impossible - from the wiki. There are plenty of ways to find out the specifics in character.

Definitely more than decades. There were generations of kings and queens

thought as much but wanted a little reassuance before passing it off as established fact :wink:

[quote=“Jamie Hall”]If you analyse the info available on the wiki, you can work out a rough order for the appearance of different groups.

Exact dates will be harder to figure out - perhaps impossible - from the wiki. There are plenty of ways to find out the specifics in character.[/quote]

I’m curious what sort of ways you’re thinking of to find out specifics in character, as I’ve run into this when trying to offer advice to friends who are interested in the historical background, and I can see two main ways:

  1. The active way: commission historical research. This costs IC money, of course, but the main constraint is that it’s limited to two instances per season over the entire playerbase.

  2. The reactive way: have something about that part of the historical background come up as part of a battle, quest or skirmish; have an object related to that part of history turn up in the private Bourse Auction or as something traded by an Eternal or from an NPC who’s just arrived at Anvil; have it turn up in a Pure Liao Vision. There are many ways that such information can be put out but it is put out - you can’t interact with it until it’s there.

(There’s also 3. Ask other people to see if the information’s out there already, but they themselves will have done 1 or 2 to get that information.)

I’ve not found this a problem myself as I’m a fairly reactive player and am interested in finding out about lots of different bits of the game history, but I do know friends who’ve tried to look at specific areas of the game and that narrows your options for 2 further while 1 is already narrow.

If you have other suggestions on where people might look that are okay to share OC, though, I would love to hear them, as then I can offer more helpful advice to people who find themselves in that narrow-area-of-interest problem. :slight_smile:

Expressing your curiosity to your national bard or egregore, or relevant NPCs, can help it get back to us that someone is interested in the area - it’s no guarantee that anything will come up about it, but it increases the chances of someone being inspired to do something with it.

Asking Eternals is another way to signal to plot writers that it’s a question people are interested in, though many Eternals will have some kind of metaphysically enforced reason why they don’t actually have access to a couple of thousand years of concentrated history that they can give you right that second (cue the sound of writers frantically writing in the background)

To pedant horribly, keeping these records isn’t - or at least isn’t officially - part of the Gatekeepers’ jobs as described on the wiki, it’s just that the person who keeps them at the moment also happens to be a Gatekeeper at the moment. But the Gatekeepers in general are a good place to start asking as they’ll generally either know the details themselves or know who to point you at for further details.