How to make a god


#1

So it’s a pretty simple question, can more deities become a part of the pantheon or is there set limits to godhood?
I was talking with a friend and after a lot of searching we’ve still no clue if it’s possible to bring new gods into the game given enough time or spreading of belief in it.


#2

There, um, are no gods in the Way of Virtue (there is a creator, but worshipping a god is considered a capital crime). So the basic premise of this question kinda falls flat right away.

The Way is controlled by the Synod, and the Synod is run by PCs. So fundamental changes to the nature of the belief are possible. Those may have dramatic impacts, since there are other nations in the world who also follow the Way.


#3

This particular game isn’t set up for gods, or introducing new ideas really. It has quite a deliberately closed system and encourages the stamping out of non-doctrine. If you want to play someone who plays that line it can be fun - people have done so before you - but their characters did not last long.

In general the game rewards playing the brief hard, and that means no gods (sorry!).

Might explain why you can’t find any gods on the wiki.


#4

The closest things to gods are the eternals. They are magical entities with a lot of power. They may be immortal but we don’t know. They all have a thing they are eternal of which defines their personality and what kind of magic stuff they can do. There is one who is an eternal of sharks and storms so that means she can do stuff with sharks and storms. You can also do deals with eternals to help with rituals. Their are six other realms that we know of and they live in those realms.

I think there were gods in the old system so you might be getting that from there but I wasn’t around then so I wouldn’t know.


#5

Ah okay so is it however acceptable to make a character who believes there is a deity or has “discovered a new eregore/virtue”??

(Thanks a bunch this has been really helpful so far)


#6

An egregore is not a good. It is the spirit of the nation, personifying it and influencing you through special mind control to be more like that nation https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Egregores. I don’t think you can make any more egregores, the whole idea of them is that we have them now, we don’t need any more. OOC (out of character) they are NPCs I believe which mean that they are provide by PD so that means you wouldn’t be able to make more for personal use as that would mean PD would have to give you your own NPC which is a bit much. It is unlikely that another egregore is found as they are something that is created (originally by the brass coast) you may find others that have been created by another place somehow that we don’t know about but the empire would probably want to keep it away from the empire due to the mind control stuff.

You can say you have discovered a new virtue. People have come up with other virtues like justice but unless they are seen as another way of expressing the current virtues, you will be labelled as a heretic and even then, you might be labelled as one. It is fine being a heretic. If you do it well you can stick around but getting mixed up in justice cults usually sends you down the road of doing things that are against the law which will get you killed.

I hope this helps.


#7

So to break that down:

A character that belives in a deity is very likely to be accused of the religious crime of Idolatry, which is defined as “subsuming human will and destiny to any inhuman entity or force”. The Way of Virtue (the Imperial religion) actively preaches against worshipping or supplicating any deity, as it’s all about humans making their own way through life and then through the Labyrinth after they die, and focusing on the recognised Virtues to help with that. As @IWillGetThingsRong says, there are entities called Eternals who are certainly not gods, but any worship of them is still Idolatry. It’s possible that a “new” Eternal could be discovered in play, but it’s highly unlikely to be something you could actively seek out.

A character that wants to create a new egregore is a possibility, but it’s not a goal that is likely to occur. Egregores were created by ritual magic a few centuries ago to preserve the culture and traditions of the 9 Imperial Nations. Only 1 has been created in living memory - for the new nation of the Imperial Orcs, the 10th Nation. However, even if a new Nation were to join the Empire in play, it is highly likely that they wouldn’t be playable by PCs. I don’t believe there’s any record of any other people in the world having an egregore, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be possible. However, you do need to be an Imperial Citizen as a player, so you wouldn’t generally be able to join a non-Imperial Nation and keep playing.

A character that wants to get a new Virtue recognised won’t necessarily be immediately stopped in their tracks, but as others have said are at risk of being accused of the religious crime of Blasphemy, which includes “promoting false virtues and the teachings of false exemplars or false paragons”, and Heresy by contradicting the Doctrine of the Seven, which defines the 7 Virtues which can help spirits through the Labyrinth. However, it is possible to make permanent changes to doctrine, so a long-term character goal could be to get an 8th Virtue recognised - but it would be a significant uphill struggle. The Synod currently teaches that other “Virtues” are False, and that they either don’t help human spirits through the Labyrinth after they die, or that they actively hinder that progress.

As @LauraH says, Empire isn’t really set up for introducing new ideas. That doesn’t mean you can’t be creative - there are stories to tell, great deeds to be done, and legacies to construct - but creating wholly new concepts in the setting isn’t really possible.

What is it about introducing a new Virtue/deity/etc. that you are interested in?


#8

This has all been amazing food for thought, thanks so much


#9

While we are on the subject of innovation, if you really want to do something like that you can go down the mage route and create arcane projections which are new rituals or you can go down the artisan route and try and get someone, who controls a runeforge, to put your idea forward and try and get it made.


#10

It might be possible to set up a new Eternal. It might be possible for a human to BECOME that new Eternal. There are rumours that this has happened. There are eye-witnesses to folk who have run off to accept a job offer from an Eternal. Individuals have later popped up claiming to be human+…

Any or all of the above may be false. I mean, the Eternals aren’t likely to spread this sort of information around… (even the ones who like trading information, and especially not the ones who collect and ensure secrets)

Investigating this entire meme could be an interesting goal to start a character with…


#11

I’ve heard people talking about someone running off and becoming an eternal but they believe it might be because everything was right and usually it isn’t possible. I was told that they have been branded a heretic and so they are enmity.


#12

Ooh now that sounds plausible, loving the long term possibility here


#13

Seeking to become an eternal is probably something you want to keep quite quiet; it’ll get you in some very hot water with the Synod! A good goal to have though, although I’m not sure how feasible it actually is from an OOC point of view


#14

Does that matter as long as lots of fun is had in the attempt? :smiley:


#15

Pretty much my logic, I don’t want to waste time but even a 1% chance is enough to go wild with it all


#16

OOC, you would probably have to get your character to push for it for while and then contact PD about. If you character does become an eternal, it is likely you would either have to become an NPC or make a new character. I doubt PD would want someone walking around with that kind of power, besides, eternals have a very fixed personality.

Most people can have a very wide range of opinions and moods which can change. An eternal has a very set number all to do with what they are eternal of and the realm they are from. If an eternal is all about combat, for example, then they will never become a pacifist and their decision will be made around combat.

In the end, it will probably be something that gets your character remembered and it would be good to talk about but it won’t give you any in game advantage I don’t think (unless you aren’t put under enmity, then suddenly the empire has a new eternal to make deals with which can be good).


#17

About allegedly someone becoming an Eternal check the bottom of this page

https://www.profounddecisions.co.uk/empire-wiki/Basileus_Flint

But you’d need to chase any more info up in character as it’s very unclear what actually happened there. The eternal could have eaten the player and is now wearing him as a jaunty hat potentially :smiley:.


#18

I can now image the eternal turning up with an imperial citizen on his head and doing ventriloquism, saying: ‘Hey guys, it’s me your old friend’ and just everyone going ‘hmmm, I’m not too sure’.


#19

for an Eternal might well be: "Having hollowed out this persons soul, mind and internal organs, I am now using his skin as a puppet that speaks in his voice… look how I make him walk amongst his fellows, all unknowing… "

Less ventriloquism, more possession…


#20

How do we know that possession isn’t just ventriloquism for demons and such things. maybe it’s part of hell’s got talent or something.

I know it wouldn’t be as funny as wear hat, that arms and legs flail every time the eternal turns his head but I just thought I would share it because I thought it was amusing.

Can they do stuff to your soul? Certain internal organs and mind, that’s easy to do, people can do that but I’m not sure about the soul. Unless true liao is actually just being used to trick us and that what we are seeing isn’t our past lives then that means wouldn’t your soul go when you die? That would mean the soul would have to be got before the person died or trapped before it goes? Has there been anything even remotely similar to that?