Refreshing our memory: Heroism

After the long Winter off it’s time to refresh our memories. I’m going to post a few links over the next few days here that are easily missed by very important to the Wintermark brief.
First that most important thing: Heroism.
Heroism

The Winterfolk admire heroism and believe that it speeds your passage through the Labyrinth of Ages. Although heroism is not one of the seven Virtues, acts of heroism encompass any or all of them to some extent. Heroism does not require success, but it does demand that the possibility of triumph exists; there is nothing heroic about wasting your life in a foolhardy charge. Heroism is often easiest to notice in battle, but many noble qualities or outstanding achievements demonstrate heroism. A clever Suaq who outwits an Eternal in a battle of riddles or a wise Kallavesi surgeon whose herb-lore saves a dozen lives are both heroes.

Heroic acts are distinguished by what is achieved or attempted, not how difficult or dangerous they are. Deliberately making an act more difficult than it need be impresses no-one in Wintermark. Equally the heroism is not diminished if the act is accomplished with others; indeed the more people who are involved in act the more heroic it becomes. It is brave to charge the orc line, but it is heroic to lead the charge.

The Winterfolk regard heroism as superior to Dawnish ideals of glory. In their eyes glory is needlessly vain; a Winterfolk hero does not need to have other people know of their accomplishments. They believe that the pursuit of glory encourages people to make their challenges needlessly difficult and denies the value of wit and guile. In Wintermark nobody demands that your actions be impressive; it is enough that they are effective.

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Hi, could you elaborate on how the Grimnir Oath affects the Winterfolk’s desire for heroism?

-These are my opinions only, I’m not affiliated with PD-

So for the Grimnirs Oath, you’ve got two things affecting it IMO Heroism and Skein.

Heroism isn’t just Martial stuff, it’s not just fighting. Very much not. It’s about doing (or trying to do) great things. It’s about doing great things together. So it’s Heroic to heal, it’s Heroic to cure disease. It’s really heroic to cure a illness plagueing a village for your people, it’s earning a Scops name Heroic if you cure a plague and teach others how to do (like the Reikos Flux).

The second part of Skein which is all about the choices you make and commitment to those choices. As the wiki page says “forks in the road” and trying to make poor choices screws up your skein making you frayed.
So in that regard Grimnir’s Oaths are all about commitment, it’s the character making a conscious choice to take the healers path and this is much better in the cultural contet of “just being a healer”, because the character is making a conscious choice and taking charge of thier lives rather than spinning in the wind.

So avoiding combat, dodging it, and healing committing to healing even when it’s hard to do (especially when it’s hard to do), that is heroic. Being half arsed and saying “ooo I’m a healer” while still fighting in a shield wall is splitting your intentions and isn’t. So imagine what is cool - a Grinmnir throughout death and destruction, not leaving their charge, even unto death or forgetting about who relies on them to keep them alive in order to go hit the monsters

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If I was an artisan and wished to make some of the best armour ever made to save a group/person in battle, would that be heroism or glory? Also is there a way I can make it seem more “I want to protect people” rather than “I want to make the best armour”?

Roleplay it any way you want. If you think that the work of a Runesmith is heroic and your work is to protect people then sell it like that in game when you RP.

I don’t think “roleplay it how you want” is helpful.
By the fact that you’re from wintermark it will be heroism.
I would suggest reading the Runesmith page and the relevant page of the tradition you’re part of. Most commonly runesmiths are stienr but that’s not exclusive. Each tradition had further info on what a hero of each tradition archetypally is, you’d frame your heroism based on who your character looks up to imo.
Steinr
Suaq
Kallevesi
Im writing this on my phone so I’ll try and write more later.

Please note: I’m not pd I’m just a player :slight_smile:

So, bigger answer.
Firstly, Glory
Comparing Glory to Heroism I think is summed up best in this quote:

[Dawnish] consider glory superior to the Wintermark notion of heroism because glory requires the acknowledgement of your peers. Glorious acts are intrinsically difficult, it is not enough to be successful, the glorious individual must prove the act was noteworthy by accomplishing it in an impressive or dramatic way. Finding a loophole around a challenge isn’t useless - but it isn’t glorious - for that is something anyone could have achieved

Where in the Wintermark basic brief on Heroismdescribes as thus when comparing to Glory

The Winterfolk regard heroism as superior to Dawnish ideals of glory. In their eyes glory is needlessly vain; a Winterfolk hero does not need to have other people know of their accomplishments. They believe that the pursuit of glory encourages people to make their challenges needlessly difficult and denies the value of wit and guile. In Wintermark nobody demands that your actions be impressive; it is enough that they are effective.

So the big takeaway for me is, Glory requires the acknowledgement of your peers, Heroism does not (but it’s good when it is), and Heroism respects Wit and Guile, whereas Glory views these neutral or even negative.

How does this factor in when considering being an Artisan? If you wanted to make “the best armour”, you’d make a name by doing it, but you wouldn’t need the acknowledgement of your peers like Dawnish would, you would simply do it knowing one day your story will be told and your saga sung by the Scops of your Hall. How you do this to make your game fun is up to you; this could be making a single suit laced with Illium and making it part of an Imperial Titles Regalia (you can amend existing Imperial Titles to have it as part of the office or create a new title specifically for that). Or you could make sure that a certain group have the best (i.e your group). How I’d make that fun is making it visual in game that you are doing this to enhance your game, but that’s me.
As said in an earlier reply you’ll want to think really carefully of who you are and who you look up to as this will frame your interaction. A Suaq Runesmith who looks up to Finomaiken and thinks of Vigilance a lot will act very differently to a Steinr who looks up to Isenbrad. I personally think that Steinr suit best what you’re wanting to do, based on this bit of the Steinr Heroism page:

At heart, the Steinr are perfectionists, driven to test their skills to the limit, whether as warriors, artisans, or scops. They are skilled artisans and crafters who treasure beautifully made items. It was a Steinr, the smith Isenbrad, who invented the runes that are used by artisans across the Empire to this day, and the act of imbuing mundane items with a spark of power and magic is a proud tradition among these people.

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