This is a conversation that’s been happening on Facebook in the last few days and I wanted to bring it to a bigger audience as I think it’s a useful and important conversation to have.
I think guys could probably stand to take a step back and listen to what those who don’t identify as men have to say on this one so keep that in mind and we will be moderating this thread with extreme prejudice 
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So my thoughts stemmed from this comment by Beaky on the League FB page.
Here is what I said in response:
Hi guys, a friend recently shared this that they wrote about the state of playing the military game at Empire, as someone non-male. It was a comment on a larger conversation and is far more eloquent than my misc thoughts below.
It spoke to me strongly. As a 5’2", curvy woman who has been hardcore into the combat game since E1 Y1, I’ve faced a number of physical and emotional challenges.
It is also worth noting that when we first started the game. I knew I was going to be the most military character in our group. I was also painfully aware that in my circle of friends I was chatty, and small, and very typically femme. So I spoke to all the people who would be effectively ‘in my command’ and told them: “I’m going to need people not to make jokes, or belittle me in front of others. I have very little confidence in my capacity to lead and will need all the help I can get”… how far we’ve come.
Now I say this. It was my male General in Y1 who told me I’d make a good General and should stand. I made many allies in Military Council who were men who treated me fairly, and who verbally smacked down their troops who were casually sexist. I’ve had a lot of good mixed in with the bad.
But the bad remains difficult. It remains difficult. There are lots of men who are incapable of seeing how unfair the current system is. And what it takes is for the awesome menfolk to step up and step back.
And this is what I posted after a few male friends asked what they could potentially do better. It is very choppy, because I typed it quickly and at work.
“Ok Izzy, I’ve heard you. I’ve really heard you. Tricky question. How do we nurture more non-male figures to accept military positions?”
My argument would be that it’s about changing the ENVIRONMENT around the military game. It’s not just about elevating the Ruth’s, the Tanwyn’s, the Vahne’s, and Floree’s, the Andrea’s, the Nicassia’s, and even the Lisabetta von Holberg’s. There are plenty of non-male characters who have taken command and shudder “proven themselves”. There isn’t much more we can do. SO I threw out some thoughts to be more productive.
(These are my thoughts, they are not exhaustive, they are also not fact, or the be all and end all. I encourage any peeps to suggest things.)
1) Obviously started by just picking more non male fighters to be in your fight group. Difficult if you don’t have a lot of such people as friends. But easier if you are in authority on the battlefield - picking them for immediate command.
2) If you addressing a group of soldiers and it isn’t clear who’s in charge (as in you know for a fact who is in charge). Address a woman near the front rather than a male. I assure you they are there, and usually looked over… a lot.
3) Literal encouragement. Be non patronising and make sure you tell a non male fighter that they have done well if they have. And if they do well in command, say so.
4) Use the systems of a game. If you see someone female on the battlefield commanding well, or fighting well - get their name! Or a good description, and take that name to their General, take it to the Assembly of Vigilance, Courage, etc. Or take it to the Field Marshal. Having your name mentioned in the system makes you feel amazing.
5) Talk to non male fighters as equals. Don’t be surprised that they are fighting well, or commanding well. Just tell them they’ve done well. Or tell them that their troops did well. If you play gruff, be gruff about it. If you are feeling enthused and upbeat then be like that.
6) If you are in military command, get to know the soldiers under your command. There are bound to be non male fighters there who are competent warriors, have a sharp mind, and can be commanding, but just DON’T. For whatever reason (as stated earlier and in many other places) sometimes they just don’t. Make an EFFORT with this person, make them an adjutant/second in command, give them tasks. Get them talking to other higher ups in the military game. Give them responsibility on the battlefield, in Anvil.
7) When you have this person/peoples, ask their opinions, listen to them. Then when you’ve done that remember to take their advice in front of others. Do NOT let other military types talk over them. “Actually, I was addressing my comrade here.”
8) If you give this non male fighter command, or authority. Do NOT micromanage them or talk over them, or manage them in any way. Just let them get on, back them up when need be, but give them space not to be a clone of you.
9) It is also worth considering that when non male combat characters are actively seeking military positions, that you don’t attempt to elevate them by denigrate noncom or feminine characters. We don’t want to be ‘one of the guys’. We’re happy where we are thank you. Everyone should be elevated to the same platform of respect, rather than trying to make us feel better by saying ‘at least you’re not some wuss who doesn’t fight’ or ‘at least you wear armour and carry a sword’.
Listen to and value the noncom femmes too!
10) There are some phrases worth practicing as a bloke until you can say them naturally.
“$woman already suggested that”
“I think $woman was talking”
“There are not any women participating in this encounter/combat/meeting/Thing, I suggest we invite $woman and $woman”
“I don’t think we’ve heard $woman’s opinion yet”.
How does your character say these things? Who are the two women they invite?
Practice tracking conversations and noticing who is talking how much. Intervene if someone else - or you - are taking up more than their share of the airwaves.
Being mocked for the tone of voice is something I have opinions on. Please consider whether this I passing through your mind (or worse still, mouth) when someone shouts:
Man shouts: low pitched, booming, assertive, good commander, give respect.
Woman shouts: screechy, rude, shrill, aggressive, no respect.
My voice goes high when I shout. I cannot control this. Maybe some voice coaching would help but it’s grossly sexist an unfair to expect women to do that and not men. But basically it’s biology, I have smaller lungs and a soprano voice, higher pitch does not mean I know less about fighting.
I’m gonna out my various FB comments here - as a Non-Binary person who might be interested in the MC game
This bit stuck out to me and I’d like to spring board off this.
TEACH. Military game is inaccessible to me because I don’t know how to fight at all. And it’s a hard skill, I can’t dump EXP into it. So even if I think I could lead, I need to fight to be considered. The only opportunity I have to practice is on the field at events. So I play non-com because to fight I need kit, but I don’t want to spend money on kit if I can’t fight, or I don’t want to buy a pile of weapons trying to figure out a style.
My comment doesn’t even need to be about gender or fighting. I think the whole roleplay aspect could be greatly lifted if a player experienced in fighting, or medical roleplay, or rituals took time to teach a newer player how to do the hard skills of those things. I see complaints about people just ripping lammies instead of casting spells, or performing surgery, or performing ceremonies, but sometimes a newer less experienced player just doesn’t know what to do and it gets nerve-racking when you’re fumbling and the other person is waiting on you to finish.
That was a bit of a tangent. Anyway, on topic, maybe if you’re a bloke trying to make the fighting game more accessible to women, consider setting time up for teaching people to fight more than flapping a foam weapon at someone. I’m sure you’ll get many players of many demographics interested if you make it engaging, and not a demand to run drills with more screaming and shouting.
In terms of our battlegroup - we take orders through the hierarchy of command on the battlefield, which means regardless of whether you’re male or female we will only do what we’re ordered to.
Hence it makes no difference to us whether that command voice is generated by female or male, its the command position that we respond to.
Kerrima:
If you want to learn polearm, or sword and buckler, come to the Marches and ask about. Several people do instructing IC. There’s a few in Dawn too IIRC.
Ask your friends or other people in the nation if you can borrow a weapon and armour. Lots of people are willing to do this on the understanding of “You break it, you replace it”.
Don’t worry about skill. The important bit is fighting _safely._You can learn that in 5 minutes. Having another willing fighter on side is always better because hey, outnumbering is a thing .
I used to play a battlefield medic. I didn’t hit people very much. My PC’s weapons and armour were there as a deterrent to people going “I can totally take that healer”. It meant I got some fighting, but people weren’t relying on me for it, which took the pressure off. I was in the front line occasionally, but could easily say “that’s not my job”. It’s not a bad place to be to get an eye for how a battle works and what a commander could be doing. And those are the skills you want to be able to have as a leader. So a healer, mender, Empower mage role means you can easily be back from the front lines if it turns out you don’t want to fight right now.
If you’re new, ask for help. I deliberately do this when my character picks a new skill at larps, and try to get a less experienced player to instruct me. Larpers love an excuse to talk IC blather about their skills, explain their PC’s favourite rune etc.
[edit: reply to shemp]
I’ve had a similar positive experience within my (small) group on the single time I took command, but it can be a different kettle of fish when dealing with larger groups, especially of strangers, who don’t know who has what position of command.
Having heard multiple experiences of women who have been ignored, or asked where their commander is (because the assumption was that it wasn’t them), even a simple rule like ‘follow chain of command’ doesn’t always work for every situation on the field. It’s why I like the suggestions above.
Totally agree, Jim. Ask for help, and offer help, and it makes more game. If and when Ivy dies, I’m definitely going to spend some time training. It’s not really my current character’s nature to take up a sword.
your point 4 find a ref and let them know giving as much detail as possable or report it to GOD again giving as much info as poss so the person involved can be spoken to or their group/nation can be
I was on the Military Council as Warmage back in the first year of empire.
I agree that the table is a problem despite how beautiful it is as there is no way to fit 20+ generals plus any adjutants and priests that are there around it without relegating many people to the second row of standing people which by default disadvantages those who are smaller. Back in year one I used to aim to arrive at all Military Council meetings 15 minutes early because that was early enough to guarantee that I could get a seat next to the table and as an average height woman if I wasn’t next to the table I wouldn’t be able to see it or be seen. The outside meeting I was at in the most recent year as my current character (an adjutant) was a significant improvement in terms of the largest group of people possible being able to see.
I got a “Why they hell did they choose a tiny girl” comment from an onlooker just after I was elected. Made out of my earshot but in front of one of my male friends who was kind enough to point out to them that that was inappropriate. Thankfully I had little else blatantly directed at me.
I got handed opportunities to speak in the Military Council more often by one of Ruth, Vahne or Floree than roughly every other General in the tent combined. Their physreps were amazing at attemping to include the other quieter members of the council.
So that was year one. I don’t think the Military Council has actually got anymore welcoming since then from my current experiences Adjutanting. Back then the military rules were still brand new and were getting changed every couple of events so quite a lot more time was spent with everyone trying to figure out what was going on and what we could do about it. Now with the mechanics well known and stable there is far more room for pushing national or personal agendas which has by the nature of conflict made shouting and aggression more common which disadvantages those socialised against this.
Of possible interest is this short article.
Here’s part of a post by Matt P from the Wintermark FB group that’s relevant here I think:
"But… that’s the core reason why I think the majority of Beaky’s comments are so important. This absolutely isn’t one person saying “I didn’t get made general - wah sexism”. On the contrary this is a female-presenting player who did get made general - and then found the experience pretty crappy. And crucially describes a whole set of behaviours and practices that would make a lot of people think “fuck that shit - this was supposed to be fun” - many of which are gender dependent.
If you’re not prepared to accept that any deviation from a 50/50 ratio is automatically indicative of a problem - then I think you have to be much more sensitive to any possible problem with the conditions. If you are not looking at the outputs as the basis for identifying gender discrimination - then the only things you can assess are the inputs and the process.
One of the the reasons I think that Beaky’s post is powerful - which is reflected in the positive response from a lot of players - is that I think it’s really difficult to write it off as “wah sexism” if you take the time to read it. That’s because it is a description of the personal experiences of being in post as a woman. And the experiences that Beaky describes - the process that determines if women become generals and more crucially if they stay on as generals - is pretty grim. Getting mocked for wearing a dress is not a problem most male-presenting players are ever going to encounter.
Some of it is stuff that is very hard to legislate for. But some of it very specifically violates our game rules - using physical force to impose yourself on other players is simply not permitted in Empire. It’s breaking our game rules, just like not taking your hits is breaking our game rules. And “it’s my character” is explicitly identified as bullshit we don’t accept in our game. If “your character is sexist” then no problem - just pop down to GOD next event, we’ll explain how roleplaying works - and then you can make a new character.
Of course it could be that Beaky’s experience was positively unique and every other person involved with the Council has found it a paradise of sexual equality. Sadly - that’s pretty much the opposite of what has happened. Several other current and former female generals have related similar negative experiences. If you’re not prepared to accept that that reflects powerful evidence that something is wrong with that part of the game then it begs the question what evidence would you accept?
Crucially when you read those experiences it’s very clear why “I treat everyone the same” is neither a solution nor a defense. Using your physical presence to dominate a room - pushing other players out of the way - is not an equal opportunity experience. You are not personally distinguishing between men and women - but the world is doing that for you. You’re making this a contest of strength - and that’s not an equal starting point. One of the reasons we changed our rules for large monsters this winter was precisely because it was a clear case of PD effectively discriminating between players on grounds of gender. If we don’t take reasonable steps to ameliorate the impact of biological factors like physical size and stature, then we’re not going to create a game with a hope of presenting a level playing field for people of any gender.
This is always a slightly depressing subject to discuss - in part because there is rarely a useful consensus. D and J are half right to say that lots of players feel these discussions undermine their enjoyment of the game. In my experience both sides are utterly convinced that they represent the overwhelming majority of players - such are the perils of confirmation bias.
But actually this time I think the majority of responses have been very positive - people have taken the time to read Beaky’s post and I’ve seen lots of people talking about what they can do to try to address the issues. I’m certainly keen to look at what we can do. It’s incredibly hard to change the way people simply assume that the man is in charge of a group of soldiers; if I could change that conditioning I wouldn’t be working in LRP for a living… But we do have a lot of control over the format of the Military Council meetings - and I think it’s high time we looked at that and what we can do to try and make this an environment where your gender is a less significant factor in your involvement."
…this. Love it!
ANYONE who is willing to stand side by side others while the enemy charges you (better plan : charge them, sorry its the Dawnish in me) you have my respect.
For my first event (E4) battle for weirwater, women were getting right in to fighting more than the guys, most of the guys waited for the battle to turn so they knew they could push the advantage and win, women were the ones who forced the battle to turn in our favor, we need more female generals on the council they got the job done.