WWVD - What would virtue do?

Extra points if you start a debate (rather than an argument). Because we’re all sensible people who are definitely engaging in a vigorous theological debate, not having an undignified screaming row/punch-up.

(It’s a silly reference to a old joke (dating back to PD’s previous-but-one system, if not earlier) in which ‘We’re all reasonable people here’ is the code phrase for ‘Quick, shank them!’)

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Some people are quite happy to drink the dangerous potions themselves for wisdom!

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I would have defended the fighters first, as we need them on other days and probably to keep those civilians protected. Wisdom. Unless a civilian was vital to a peace negotiation, or research into the Vallorn, or a large amount of money flowing into the Empire. As a combat healer, my first aim is to protect the people who, frankly, shield us.

Wisdom is horribly misnamed. It has nothing to do with caution, common sense, or post-justifying your actions. The impulse you are describing is better rooted in Loyalty (to the fighters) or Vigilance. Whereas my character, in that moment, remembered that his Raison D’etre is to protect civilians.

“Wisdom is not short hand for ‘action I’d like you to take’, and foolishness is not synonymous with ‘outcome I wish you had not provoked’” -Cardinal Agnetha De Rondell, Spring 378YE

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Well, my raison d’etre is to heal citizens who are injured, and save Broceliande. I try to parry so that fighters don’t get injured in the first place, but it’s my view that we’re all in harm’s way if the Vallorn expands, and that non-combatant on the battlefield should probably learn how to fight or assist the fighters.

I don’t fear the Orcs, but if I’m ever about to turn vallorn, I’d prefer a good swift death.

Is that wisdom, or should I see a Vate again?

Doesn’t sound much like Wisdom to me, sounds much more like Vigilance.

  • The Virtuous apply what they have learned; Wisdom knows all knowledge is incomplete.
  • Let every word you speak carry meaning; do not use forty when four will do.
  • Wisdom is not always knowing the answer; Wisdom is finding the right question.
  • Test what you learn; only fools accept hearsay as truth.
  • Despise folly and chastise the fool that spreads it.

or

  • Seek out the poison in your neighbour’s fields, lest your own crops be blighted.
  • Be alert to all dangers; within and without.
  • Seek out falsehood and expose the truth.
  • Prepare for malice, yet thwart malice before it strikes against you.
  • Despise that which threatens what you watch over, whether by malice, lies, folly or carelessness.
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It would seem to me that wisdom is horribly misnamed, or misrepresented. Wisdom in reality is not synonymous with knowledge. Knowledge is simply things that you know or wish to know, then there’s understanding, which is something else again. Wisdom (in my opinion at this moment) is what you do with what you know, but this again only scratches the surface for example universal versus circumstantial wisdom.
This may not be a popular opinion but I think pd seem to represent wisdom through the paragons simply as knowledge and the pursuit of it, while seeking knowledge is surely wise, wisdom is not simply the pursuit of knowledge.

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Might be better to think about wisdom(virtue) as curiosity?
Wisdom(word) usually means something like insight gained from experience.

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I would agree from a wholly worldly/secular point of view, however experience is no guarantee of wisdom. As far as is in play goes I think wisdom is something very few players could convincingly play, it’s not something you can fake as with the other virtues. So to change its meaning into something like curiosity would make it not wisdom at all so why call it that. If this is what wisdom means in play rather than what the tenets of wisdom suggest, then I think these contradictions should be addressed and perhaps the virtue of wisdom should be changed to curiosity or the pursuit of knowledge to better represent its meaning in play, and to prevent players from becoming dedicates of caution, or spouting foolishness and nonsense claiming to be wisdom dedicates.

Or maybe change nothing and instead those who can portray a truly wise wisdom dedicate, should become sword scholars and go and perform some extrajudicial executions when these supposed wisdom dedicates prove themselves to be fools. Sounds like fun to me :stuck_out_tongue:

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My preferred explanation is “Wisdom is MAD SCIENCE: The Virtue.” But yes, Wisdom as-named is too easily confused by players for it’s real-world connotations, which are not really what the paragons and exemplars there display. They display learning, finding things out, and doing cool things with what they have learned.

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This is certainly how it is presented, which bugs me as this contradicts the tenets and many archetypes that have wisdom central to there briefs such as the sword scholar, who to my mind follows more real world definitions of wisdom. The more I look the more holes I find :frowning:

As sqweelygig says, that’s Vigilance, not Wisdom. Maybe go talk to a Guide again. :stuck_out_tongue: (Not a Vate. Vates are for magic nonsense, not virtue question.)

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I think prosperity is also played incorrectly alot. People will try and bend it into being about being generous. I think Matt said in a podcast recently (correct me if I’m getting this wrong) something like “Prosperity also means that what’s mine is mine and if you want what’s mine you have to earn it”.

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Heck yeah. Share with those who deserve it. Definition of ‘deserve’ is up to the participant.

Renata made very sure that any person she employed out of the good of her heart back in the first Seguran occupation earned it. No charity. Just opportunity.

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