Has anyone ever felt like they've never really connected with the game?

Hi everyone

I’ve been going to LARP intermittently since 2019, on average around twice a year. E1 is coming up and I’ve begun the same annual conflict of not yet booking my ticket, because I can’t actually decide if I want to go anymore.

Every event I’ve ever been to has been more directionless, more confusing, and containing less (if any) roleplay at all than each previous event. Most times I feel like I do very little, while everyone else is running around doing many things, and are endlessly busy. It would not be unusual for me to spend at least 4 or so hours every day sitting or walking, with no purpose.

I leave every event feeling like I’ve figured it out, and that next time I return, I will “totally nail it this time” and “really enjoy myself”. It never materialises, and every event I re-enter the same cycle of lackluster roleplay and disappointment. Every time I try to roleplay it’s met with OC responses and a lack of authentic IC engagement. This seems to be typical for everyone I have LARP’ed with. Is this typical for the entire field?

As someone who has been to six or so events - what am I missing? What am I supposed to do? I desperately want to have fun, the concept of LARP is so very appealing. But it never seems to deliver.

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Hi Keys, glad you popped up and asked, I wish you’d done so earlier…

It is entirely possible to feel disconnected from things, especially in a big fest game like Empire. There aren’t referees looking out for the un-engaged and solitary, and as you say, everyone seems busy with their own stuff.

I had this for a while playing Maelstrom (previous PD game): I’d miss the thing folk spent the next hour talking about, wander off looking for interesting things, maybe take a break in my tent, repeat.

I’m quite worried by:

It might be just the folk you keep meeting, but most people should be staying in character by default, and maybe dropping OC for a brief clarification.

I can reassure you that this is NOT typical of the entire field!

A fest larp is, to a fair extent, one of those cases of “you get back what you put in”. It sounds like you’re doing a lot of legwork already, talking to lots of people, exploring outside your nation, so I’m not sure what’s going wring for you there…

Some advice that I can give (apologies if you’re heard or tried this already):

Are you playing alone or with friends? If the latter, can you ask them for help to get into things?

Open conversations with folk with IC references or news. The Winds of War/Fortune are good for this, as they tend to create discussion points for whole nations.

See if you can make some plans before you hit the field. Something you want to find, something you want to do. Again, the winds may give you ideas, as may your co-Nationals on here or Facebook.

What sort of game are you looking for? Trading? Alchemy? Religeon? Quests? Ask around (IC) and go looking for others doing the same thing.

Talk to your nations Egregore(s). Their job is to help enthuse and engage people in your position.

If you have trouble engaging with other characters as a character, have you considered joining the monster crew? It’s possible to book a place to help out there, and that will provide a lot more structure and purpose to your weekend, at much less cost. You’d have to talk to them about it, at crew@profounddecisions.co.uk

The Imperial Offices, or sometimes the Hub, will often have things that need doing. Think of them as low level fetch/messenger quests. Could be worth a shot, an IC task with IC goals, maybe for a little IC coin…?

I play in Dawn, as a Troubadour and Battle-mage. Come find me! I’ll be the one in black and gold banging a small drum and singing or telling stories.

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What nation are you in?

I haven’t encountered OC responses in the League.

If you are interested in the trading game then I can “give you a job” which might give you a sense of purpose and reason to interact IC with the people you already know

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One thing I’m going to suggest, which might be a minor contradiction to the above

Find “The Space” that most meshes with the section of the game you’re interested in (Anvil Hospital, The Hub, the Militia Tent, Glory Square, the Moot Square, Song and Stories Circle, etc), and camp out

Strike up conversations about things as banal as the weather on site or the cost of a pint/slice of cake in Anvil, and go from there

Everyone wants to talk big things, but the world lives and breathes on “mundane conversations”

One of the things that I’ve found about LARPing at fest style events is you can sometimes shoot yourself in the foot if you just talk all plot, all the time.

(This is said as one of my favourite conversations I had last year was one where I was taking a quiet few moments at the Hospital space and ended up chatting with a small child and their parent about what was on the Sentinel Gate and what it meant.

It wasn’t a world shattering, or very big plot conversation, but it was a small and sweet one that made the world feel lived in)

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As Wake said, ive never encountered OC responses in Highguard, but i have seen a few in the Larger nations (Navarr, Dawn and Wintermark)

Do you LARP at any other systems? The smaller the system, the easier game is to find! And you may make friends there which can facilitate game in Empire, or at least give you something to do!

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Hi Keys,

I’ve had a similar starting experience with Empire, only making one or two events per year and never there for time-in on Friday due to work, lots of trudging loops of Anvil where I felt I was getting nowhere. Though I’m feeling like I have turned the proverbial corner at long last (fingers crossed, touch wood and all that) so hopefully some of the following waffle might help. Mostly this is advice that I should have taken sooner.

OC responses aren’t typical in my experience but they can really stand out, sadly. Styles of roleplay do vary though and the sheer number of people in the game means lots of variation. It also means there’re almost certain to be people with a similar style to you somewhere. Finding it can be like panning for gold, admittedly.

For direction, the Imperial Offices have already been mentioned but Senators often need assistants if you’re up for taking a supporting role for a bit. Tracking them down isn’t always easy but watching a senate session from the gallery might find you someone who seems worth helping, even if they’re from another nation. The IC drinking places are sometimes looking for staff too, which is a chance to strike up conversations with punters while you serve them; not every character will welcome the approach but I’ve lucked out a few times with a, “How’s Anvil treating you?”

Visiting the other nations to see their spectacle events can be a useful passtime too. You might find something particular there that grabs your attention and your character might even consider changing nation.

If you go to battles, finding the healers and guarding them will almost certainly earn you some IC friends. Should you like the way they roleplay then ask to visit their camp afterward. When monstering, roleplay like you’re a full character and see who joins in - they could be people worth getting to know too. If you don’t do the battlefield, take the opportunity for a lie-in or have a wander around your nation, try for conversations with the other people who’ve stayed at Anvil.

Player-run PD-sanctioned events are a good deal smaller than a summit at Anvil and usually have a defined purpose. Not something I’ve tried myself but I have read of several people starting at one during the two-year dark, getting to know a goodly number of other characters while there and then finding their niche rapidly once they’d got to Anvil proper. If you can find one that appeals (there’s a thread for them here: Empire Player Events 2022/2023) then it’s worth considering attending, even instead of a main-event ticket in my view, when you’ve been having less fun than we’d all wish for you.

Attending E1 has pros and cons.
Cons: The weather has a higher chance of dampening your mood if things aren’t going well than at E2 or E3. Ticket price is higher at this point. Often there’s more mud than other events. There’s less time to make online contacts if you’re so inclined (see below).
Pros: Everyone is finding their feet again together after the off-season, there’s less metaphorical running to catch up. Groups can also be more welcoming to random lone bodies in need of a campfire, and there is a certain amount of OC camaraderie in enduring the weather together if it does turn foul. Plus it gives you upto three other events left in the year if it leaves you wanting more.
Who knows: There also tend to be fewer players attending than later in the year; this can be a curse or a boon to finding jobs that want doing or particular characters, circumstances depending.

I would suggest trying to make contacts OC when the IC approach is letting you down. At the event, Player Support is at GOD and can radio an Egregore if you can’t find one and as Geoffrey said, helping you into the game is their OC job. Between events, ask online for groups open to having company (accept all offers, make a list and use it to fill any aimless time in the field) or that are actively recruiting. The latter bit assumes that you don’t have a banner/coven/sect yet or could do with a different style of one (and the rules allow for joining one of each simultaneously). The facebook groups seem to get more recruitment traffic than this forum but it’s pretty common to see posts on those pointing players here for any number of topics. Player Support are available between events too; new.player@profounddecisions.co.uk is a slightly misleading address, as they are there for existing players just the same.

And maybe we can help you here in the thread. What are the most appealing aspects of LARP to you? What bits of Empire grab you most? Have you tried any bits of Empire and thought “Nah”? Which nation is your character in? Do they have particular Ambition(s) at present? How would you describe your preferred roleplay? Can you give us any example of authentic IC engagement to illustrate what you’re after?

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Hi everyone

Thank you all for your replies so far - they fill me with equal parts hope that there is good game out there, as well as dread that I may lack the social skills and/or confidence to put myself out there enough, or change enough, to actually achieve that good game. I think I had just that hope when I started, but the repeated negative experiences I’ve had previously have really run me down.

I’ll add some additional information in about myself, as a few questions have been asked.

I’m a member of the Navarr. As one of the larger nations, I think you are all correct in that I can end up lost amongst them. There seems to be little in the way of inclusion or roleplay on a Nation-wide scale. On a smaller scale, I’ve somewhat “limpeted” on to an existing group of people who sell/trade IC resources and OC products. The times I am playing seem to mostly consist of OC discussion around values, prices, and bartering, and otherwise sitting around waiting for people to walk up and shop. Wider conversations about other IC occurrences do not seem to happen.

In terms of the game I am looking for, it is hard for me to commit to something without knowing what it involves. I can say that trading is likely off the table as, as above, there seems to be very little RP surrounding it. One of the few areas that I have thought about is mooting, or debating in some way. My limited understanding is that those areas most occur around religion and politics. As I lack sufficient IC world knowledge, I find those areas impenetrable. Does anyone know how I would go about getting into these areas?

I think, and this is at the root of a lot of my problems, I don’t know what I want from LARP. People talk about LARP in very enticing terms. I play a lot of DnD, and the notion that that could be played out actively, and in person, was what originally drew me to the game. I create characters that reflect conflicts I find within myself, and then play them out in ways that challenge myself, and my ways of typically tackling those conflicts. It’s the complex, interpersonal, interactions, that really draw me in, and keep me going back to DnD. Then the question of what specifically at LARP do I want to do arose and, unfortunately, I never found an answer.

Additional background covered, I’ll also cover off a few of the actions mentioned. Thank you all who suggested them.

Digging into the Winds, I’ll confess that I don’t understand them. They appear, to me, to be loose form RP prompts, concerning the goings on in various nations or geographical areas. I do not think that I have ever experienced an interest in those locations, people, titles, or goings on. I find them difficult to understand in how loose form they are. I also do not have the depth of world knowledge required to interpret sufficient nuance . I think I am looking for direction, for one of the Winds to tell me where to go, or what to do. I do no think they do that, and I have never found them helpful.

I have attempted to talk to both my Egregore and GOD to seek assistance at previous events. The Egregore is constantly surrounded by many people, and I find it too intimidating to approach them. As with many other people, they also seem far too busy to pin down for even a momentary discussion. GOD have simply turned me away, and informed me that I have to figure out the game by myself. I will highlight (if I allow myself a moment to vent) that most of my interactions with PD staff/GOD/admin are typically negative. They appear to be stretched thin dealing with queries of every sort. I understand the position that they are in, and the stress the job comes with. It means that I as a player am never a priority, and the task of helping me must fall to other players. This seems to be the way of things.

I appreciate the mention of the monster crew, as providing more structure and purpose. I will not, however, be emailing PD to ask them to join. Negative PD experiences mentioned above aside, I want to have a player experience filled with entertainment and fun, and don’t want to work. I hope that does not come across as too harsh - I appreciate the hard work that all the volunteers put in to running such a large event. It is an option that may work for some, but I do not find it appealing.

I have enquired at the Hub/Offices for work before. There was nothing to do. I sat on a bench for an hour waiting for something, and nothing arose. I am reticent to go down this path again. Not to put too unfair a comparison on it, but the ticket price of £75+ could purchase a meal out, a spa day, or a day at an amusement park. Perhaps I am jaded by my previous experiences, but these all seem preferable to begging for a fetch quest in a field, of which there is no guarantee of success.

I hope I am not coming across as too negative. Enjoying LARP is something I do not seem to be able to do, no matter how hard I try. I am picturing myself on the field at E1, at the entrance as I take my first step. I ask myself - where am I going now that will make a difference? I do not feel like I have an answer, and I see the weekend full of other people swirling around me, as they all begin to have fun and I, once again, do not.

Hi Keys,

Reading what you’ve written - I think you can find the sort of fun you’re looking for in LARP, but right now I’m not sure you’ll find it at Empire. The impression I get is that you would find it more enjoyable at a smaller system with more plot to ‘go around’ and more opportunities to be the/one of a few key figures focussing on a particular part of the game.

Empire’s style of game is certainly not for everyone - that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with it, or you, it’s just not a good match.

Maybe put Empire on the back burner for now, and try looking for a smaller system closer to you, which doesn’t require so much investment? Many universities have LARP clubs/societies attached to them. I’ve not played it myself but my understanding is that Fools and Heroes, which has 21 branches scattered round the country, is a high fantasy game telling heroic, D&D style stories. There are lots of other smaller games - fantasy, sci fi, horror - running around the country.

I agree that it can be difficult to find things or stand out in a bigger nation.
Have you visited Songs and Stories in the evenings?

It doesn’t seem that you have a group of friends you are playing with, doing stuff with. Trading can be IC intensive, but that depends on the commitment of the players involved…

Religeon and politics ARE some of the more knowledge-intensive parts of the game. In order to get into those areas and learn about them, my suggestion would be to find a suitable cardinal/Senator and ask them about it. And you know, refuse to go away until you understand it! Make that an objective in and of itself.

Start by picking out what is relevant to your character; your home province, your home nation, things that your character might find interesting. This is a parallel to D&D; your backstory gives you something to care about and a place to start. If uncertain, go on a bit of a wiki walk, read up about the areas, decide what your character would want to do.

This is not your fault, but theirs. Navarr has three Egregores, I believe, and their primary responsibility is making sure the players of the nation get involved. GOD is there for mechanical queries, the Egregores for role-playing issues (generalising a bit but that’s likely why GOD keeps knocking you back). If you are failing to get involved with the game, feeling lost within your nation, not having fun, lost and unsure… then the Egregore should be your first stop. And you should be their first concern, barring actual OOC emergencies.

Would you like me to reccomend some friends in Navarr who may well be able to engage you in RP and find something to do? Would you like me to kidnap you for an IC introduction to Dawn and the other nations? :smiley:

Would you like me to find the relevant Egregore players for a chat on here, to help you sort this out?

Are you on the Navarri Facebook group? As they seem fairly keen to invite people along to stuff…

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I’ve been going since Empire event 1 years and years ago, and played a character that started in Dawn and went to Marchers, it was some of the best role play I’ve experienced.

I lost my interest for 3 years as things changed in my life and it was a sad time but I’ve gotten my keen back last year and I’ll be at this upcoming event, I think over the many many years i put to much on myself and over thought a lot and lost my “connection” to the game as you asked.

I hope this event starts a whole new connection of the game

Great Question!

Hey Keys, sorry to hear you’re feeling somewhat lost, it’s totally understandable! As others have said, Empire is a big game - over 2000 people attend the events.

You’re right in that the Winds aren’t really there to provide obvious directions on where to go and what to do. Rather the Winds summarise what’s going on in the world, what’s happening in the different nations, culminations of recent IC activities, etc. People do choose character directions from them - for example, in one of the recent Winds there is talk about a particular group of Orcs trying to join the Navarr nation. Many people will have opinions on that, and some will want to act on them, such as convincing the Senators it’s a good or bad idea. But to take direction from it is their choice, not something written in.

You’ve said that you don’t really know what interests you, and that you can’t commit to something without knowing what it involves. Empire is a very flexible system, in that you can try something and then decide it isn’t for you. PD even allow you to respec your character sheet if you’ve spent XP in something that you decide you no longer want.

With regards to debating, most people come into the game without sufficient IC world knowledge - something I found quite hard to accept when I started. But there’s just FAR too much of it to know it all and come in fully fledged! The best way to learn is to talk to people. There are limited numbers of senators in each nation to explain the politics, but there are plenty of others who will know what’s going on. And there are loads of priests that you can talk to if you want help understanding the religious side of things! For the most part, larpers LOVE to talk about their specialist subject, but you have to approach them or else they won’t know.

The Egregore thing, as Geoffrey says, is a problem, and I know they would be saddened to know that they haven’t had the opportunity to help you. Perhaps, as he suggests, he can connect you OC so that IC it becomes less intimidating. Please do try again with them if you can.

The truth is, Empire is what you make of it. And that can be HARD. Many of us have struggled, and still do, especially with having the self-confidence to just…walk up to people and start a conversation. But for the most part, players are friendly and willing to chat (and yes, for the most part they will be IC - I’m sorry you’ve had rubbish engagement on that side).

I hope that our advice will be of some help to you, and that you can find your game, or at least get more enjoyment out of it if you do decide to stick with it!

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To be perfectly frank I agree with SevenSecrets: I’m not sure Empire sounds like the right fit for you. You might have a better experience with a smaller scale LARP such as one of the EyeLARP games, or similar.

Fest LARPs can be very overwhelming. I burned out on the for a long time but rekindled my interest after playing smaller scale LARPs exclusively for a couple of years.

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This reply does assume that you’re going to give Empire another go. The first bit might help with deciding whether you will or not, but the rest is then things to try for getting into the politics and religion aspects of the game. It’s also long enough to deserve a health warning.

My character is also in Navarr and I agree there is little nationwide interaction; that’s largely limited to the standings where characters can address those gathered, which tends to be limited to something along the lines of, “I’m trying to get this thing done, if you’re interested then come find me after.” The exceptions tend to be something related to a recent Winds entry, such as promoting one of the possible futures for the city of Seren, publicising events or a group/person’s deeds, and exhorting military units to support a particular army, campaign front or Opportunity (such as the adventure into Broceliande available in the last downtime). I will say that I haven’t seen much more whole-nation interaction in my experience of other nations either, though that could be a wrong-place-wrong-time situation.

The set-up for Empire in general leans away from nationwide organisation though, so that players can’t get into positions of outright authority over others. Inclusion is intended (as I understand it) to work within player-groups, which are meant to be the assumed basic unit of the game. Like playing DnD with a single hero instead of a party, approaching Empire solo can leave your options narrowed and make it harder to achieve much. Finding a group with a set goal or focus (to help you with direction) and aiming to make a positive impact within that group is probably a better starting aim than changing the world. With effort, the group will make a difference to their nation through their actions; add some luck or more effort and they might get the means to change the Empire directly (getting one of their own an Imperial title such as a general, senator or on the Imperial Throne for instance) but it might be that they influence their nation in a way that then makes a difference to the Empire. There are a few famous individuals I can think of but more often it’s a group that becomes renowned. I can provide examples if you’d like but this is getting plenty long already and might be better done by DM.

It can also help to try to look at the aim of the game as being to craft your character’s story rather than change the world. I scribble stuff down as a journal in the week following an event to try and keep that mindset. It’s no fun to read the dismal bits of a character’s backstory in a book, nor play through them at a LARP, which it feels to me like you and I have been doing. But getting to play through their finding their feet will hopefully be satisfying at least and then the story builds from there.

This doesn’t touch on using the Winds but I can do that by DM if you’d like. Pretty much all of my examples are how I’ve used them and am using them, so I’d rather not put all my machinations up in a public thread.

The rest of this post-turned-essay is on getting into politics and/or religion. Apologies if I over-explain something you already know.

The very first step is consider contacting the traders you’ve been spending your time with so far, ask if they know anybody in either the Senate or Synod game that they could introduce you to, either IC or OC. There’s a fair chance that some of them tried other aspects of Empire before focussing on the trading side of things.

On the field, I suggest going to the Guides’ Council for your first stop for religion, as it’s immediately after the time-in Standing on Friday. As the priest archetype, they will be largely talking religion and religious politics there so have a listen and at the end get somebody’s attention and tell them you’re in need of a Guide. There’s a chance you’ll have picked a priest who doesn’t do much guiding but they ought hopefully to know who does, and the Guide’s IC calling is to get people to the best place for them socially, spiritually and geographically. I don’t know where it is held unfortunately but besides asking around, Harwyn Eternal is Cardinal of Pride and usually speaks at Standing so if you can note him and then catch him after Standing (or someone waiting to speak to him if there’s a queue/crowd) then odds on you’ll be pointed to the right place. The Cardinal of Vigilance is also Navarr but I’ve not encountered them; worth listening at Standing for the name, Gaelen Embercast though since they’re another person in a prominent religious role.

Beyond the Navarr camp, The Hub is your next best choice for religion in my view. It’s where all Judgements put before the Synod (Guide to the Synod here) get posted so there is a pretty constant stream of priests from all nations going through there. So watch out for a friendly/interesting face (with tattoos or not) looking at the Judgements and ask if they have time to talk to you about the Synod or can introduce you to someone who might. Learn from my mistakes and make sure you are watching the right section of The Hub - it also has walls for general public announcements and for Conclave business. And you get confused looks if you ask a mage about the Synod.

Also of possible interest from the debating side, the event schedule for e1 shows two player-organised gatherings on Saturday afternoon that might be of interest to you. At 4:30pm in the Military Council tent there’s a discussion on the Champions of Virtue and their purpose, followed at 5pm by a symposium on balance between the virtues. More a spectator sport at this point (certainly would be for me!) but would get you an idea of how such things are done at present. What I don’t know is whether these things are invite-only or for set numbers, asking a civil service NPC at The Hub would be my first point of call with a question like that. I also have no idea if these things are at all common -I’ve never looked at the schedule that hard TBH- but if you give e1 a miss then it’s worth looking at the schedule in future.

For secular politics, the first Senate session is 10pm Friday and the viewing gallery is normally freely open but can get very full. The sessions I’ve watched have tended toward theatre more than debate; much of the latter and the political wrangling to secure votes goes on beforehand, which you may be able to help with. Senators don’t always speak at Standing but if one does, either approach them afterward instead of the Guides’ Council or ask around the nation later on. My personal recommendation though would be to try the Guides first, then attend the national combat training as a way to meet some new Navarr, take time to converse with people there after and get some food (maybe take a break OC), head to Senate at 10pm.

Another sure place to find a senator in e1 will be the standing circle on Saturday afternoon, when the Hercynia territory elects it’s senator for the coming year. Any Navarr can stand, anybody can ask questions and then residents of Hercynia will line up behind their chosen candidate. So you can guarantee that a senator will be there at the end of it all and it’s as good a time as any to offer your assistance. The time of the vote will be on one of the blackboards at the circle. If the location is moved then that will probably also be mentioned on the board, as well as at Standing(s) ahead of time. It’s the same format for the other territories, with Miaren voting at e3 and Therunin at e4 (the Empire doesn’t control enough of Broceliande nor Liathaven for them to get representation in the Senate).

“Meet your senators” is an event that has been held in the past as well. Again the time will be on the blackboards if it’s happening. The format I’ve seen has been a Q&A at the standing circle and then time to catch at least one senator one-to-one after, at a bar or similar with seating.

Another source of politics and debate is the Conclave, where what spells are commonly taught or banned and diplomacy with Eternals gets decided. Access requires a character to have the Magician skill and cast the Operate Portal spell though (or else have access to another spell or magic item that will get non-mages in, or can use the Apprentice ability if you’ve not spent any xp yet). I know nothing more about Conclave other than that it’s had a reputation for being long but there have been recent changes to how it runs. If you have the 2xp banked from previous events, I think it’s worth giving Magician and the Conclave a try as you can now unlearn skills and recoup the xp to spend on something else.

Congratulations/commiserations if you’ve got to the end of all this!

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Thank you everyone who responded <3 I Imagine some of you will be on the field now, or making your way there soon. I’ve decided to give Empire one last go (at the very least) before I throw in the towel, so I may well see some of you there in the next few days!

I’ve onboarded the suggestions to try a smaller LARP - I think that I will be trying this, no matter the result of E1. It seems to line up better with my aims to be part of a smaller roleplay environment.

I’m going to create a plan, list off the people I want to talk to, or the things I want to learn, and try to speak to people, and stick to them if I find the RP interesting. I hope I find it. I’ll let you all know how the event goes afterwards.

Thank you all again for you kind words and assistance <3

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Good luck and see you in the field!

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