Turning OC money into IC money

General
1

I have a dilema with this, in terms of people spending their own OC money to generate an IC income … it’s just not really roleplaying is it ?

I can appreciate the time & effort it takes to stock & run say an IC bar, and how it adds greatly to the character of the IC areas, but fundementally it isn’t really a level (role) playing field, but somehat becomes akin to a “freemium” service, of people turning OC cash into IC money.

I’m sure there would be an outcry if GOD (or players) starting selling extra resources for OC money, but is it really that different ?

Hence, should IC bars be subject to an IC taxation, or should they be “licenced” in terms of having to offset running a bar by giving up your personal resource, or accounting (somehow) for how you “generate” your stock ?

NB - I have used “bar” as a common reference that could be expanded to account for all markets that convert OC goods/services into IC money, and is likewise, say. just as applicable to an OC musician generating money as an IC bard.

Your thoughts please.

2

This comes up from time to time. I’m generally on the side of “the effort and money spent improves the game for everyone”. But I still struggle with the fact that innkeeps and restauranteurs end up being the richest people in the world. That’s a problem of game design though, and not one that anyone’s managed to solve yet. I think the Virtue of Prosperity ought to be a good start on the solution, though, because it expressly encourages the spending of that money, so it “should” come back out into circulation, and possibly in bigger lumps than it would have if it hadn’t been aggregated by the commercial endeavour.

There is always going to be a resource heirarchy. People who can afford (whether by dint of earning more IRL, or having IRL talent to make the stuff for pennies) better kit and big IC tents (and the logistics that go along with such things) will have an advantage: if you can’t afford a set of heavy, you’ll be at a disadvantage in a fight; if the other guy’s plate cost several grand and has no accessible gaps, your Cleave and Impale skills are useless; people are impressed by quality costume (“clothes maketh the man” after all, and “good first impressions” count) and having somewhere nice to sit and chat is better than having to huddle under the eaves of the bar cos it’s too noisy to talk inside and pissing down with rain in the street. Arguing for some sort of level playing field just means the average level of the field comes down.

3

This is a debate that’s been going round for a while. With that in mind I’m not going to cover old ground but you asked for comments so here are some…

I’m not understanding what your position is based on the examples you’ve used which are rather scattershot. Is your problem here with the OC money for IC gain itself, in any form? Or is it with OC money for IC gain when it doesn’t involve much roleplaying (cakeselling with minimal interaction)? Or is it with anything that gives players potential for earning IC money through OC means (e.g. a musician, or being good at trading)? (This last one is considerably more controversial than the others!)

In any case, my answer to your question “should IC bars [and similar ‘markets’] be subject to an IC taxation?” would be no, for a number of reasons.

  1. They make the game better not worse.
  2. Why tax IC bars if you’re not going to ‘tax’ people who wear heavy armour? I paid a large amount of OOC money for my plate armour so I could a)look cool b)have extra hits c)not get impaled by arrows. Should I be taxed for IC gain like a bar owner?
  3. A logical argument would be that a bar owner or musician can prove that they’re very profitable over 3 days - surely it would make sense for them to be given EXTRA downtime resources to match their demonstrable moneymaking skillz? I’m being facetious of course, that wouldn’t improve the game, but it makes a lot more IC sense than taking away the player’s personal resource as some sort of illogical offset.
  4. Empire is an aspirational game, in terms of kit standards, props, tents, as well as roleplaying skills (in which I include music, bartering, arguing for senate motions - all things that bring you IC gain). People pouring money into their kit benefits everyone around them. Bringing, setting up, and running a bar/feasting hall benefits everyone who uses it. OOC money makes the game better, just like OOC effort does.
  5. A common argument is that it isn’t ‘fair’ that OOC money (or skills) converts to IC money. I think it is. I think if I choose to buy real beer with fake money then I’m getting the better end of that deal. The seller presumably thinks he is getting the better end of that deal. We’re both happy. Also, it generally takes a huge amount of OOC effort to make all this IC money, like spending your event running a bar for instance, or spending a huge number of hours between events writing, learning, and practising appropriate songs. Those people who make loads of money work REALLY hard for it.
  6. IC money is the least important of the tools for making IC gains (or more importantly, making your game more fun). You can achieve far, far more with good banter, a memorable name, an eyecatching costume, being nice to people, being horrible to people, all those things you can’t quantify, than you can with a few extra Thrones in your pocket.

In summary, LARP isn’t a level roleplaying field, either in terms of money or in terms of the OC skills we bring to the game. Absolutely nothing will make it level. More importantly, level isn’t something I want. Things not being level creates great game, highlights ambition, gives you the IC goals, triumphs, and failures that lead to OC fun.
/tuppence

1 Like
4

This sort of position is as effective as complaining that during the Summer Solstice, it shouldn’t rain, and that in the Winter Solstice, it should snow. It would be lovely if there were some effective balance, if my owning a business meant I could turn up and have a load of food resources handed to me, and that I had 18 rings, and everything over 18 rings I earnt was paid back when I returned my pack. I get roleplay and nothing else, because I already get 9 crowns from Business (but I couldn’t start with 9 crowns worth of business assets as I then couldn’t spend money when others could straight off) However, that is both impossible, and, really, rather daft.

OC affects IC. Hard Skills like being able to play an instrument have a profound impact on the actual game. That is how things are. Why should someone who has Musical training be able to earn more than me IC just because they paid for lessons OC? Why should a character with no XP spent on fighting be able to beat me in a sword fight just because they spent 10 years paying for fencing lessons?

Life is not fair. It is also, unfortunately, illegial to sell alcohol for OC money due to licencing.

The effect this has on the availability of the resource “Roleplaying” can be roughly summed up as:

None whatsoever.

Your character is still being played, you still have a personlity, you still have roleplay options. Just because someone is earning money for selling drinks is not a lack of roleplay; it doesn’t take away from your roleplay, and it adds a huge amount for everyone. Resources do not the character make. I like to think I lead a fun and worthwhile life, and so does my character, and neither of us are on equal footing with the rest of the world. That Bar provides things for everyone; it makes them put in a LOT of effort on field (serving, running, providing etc) and it provides immersion and atmosphere and a place to resolve things for every player who attends. Having a HUGE tent provides places to sit and do things; but they needed money to buy that tent. You can’t measure OC vs IC, and you can’t try and balance what OC has to provide for IC interactions.

The way the Applewood Arms generates its booze is from Marcher farms. Yay. Even if in reality it’s from people working hard in real life and throwing away a huge amount of cash for money that works 4 times a year and has no longevity and, at the end of the day, doesnt’ mean squat to the High Guard or Imperial Orcs.

5

[quote=“shemp”]
NB - I have used “bar” as a common reference that could be expanded to account for all markets that convert OC goods/services into IC money, and is likewise, say. just as applicable to an OC musician generating money as an IC bard.

Your thoughts please.[/quote]

Imagine the game without the ability to trade services for IC money.

There are no IC bars on the field. No IC food service establishments. This means that you can’t eat anywhere other than Tykes without leaving the field or cooking for yourself. You can’t go on a pub crawl, because there’s only one pub.

You can’t hire a party planner or a musician, because you can’t pay them.

You can’t buy jewelry or other items IC, so the majority of people (especially those with less OOC money) are less appropriately kitted out.

No gambling is allowed, unless it’s absolutely devoid of skill, and certainly no tournaments.

Mercenaries no longer exist, because that involves selling your hardskill ability to fight, and the fact you have weapon+armour physreps, as well as your IC skills.

There are no newspapers on the field any more. No price lists. No IC descriptions of what items do what. No IC lists of artisans.

And what’s the benefit? There’s no longer an economic advantage to using your OOC resources to improve the game.

That’s the only benefit, and many people would consider it a detriment.

6

Our group runs an IC bar (The Mandowla’s Arms). We chuck in £10 each for beer/cider money, as well as the additional costs from everyone who contributes to group kit, the labour involved in moving the bar, serving pints, washing up. This translates to 1-2 Crowns each an event so far. It hardly makes us super rich, it’s more like paying for disposable set dressing. in my case I bring homebrew in part because it lets me get opinions on what works well.

What the non-mechanical service economy does is give you stuff to spend your money on that’s not just More Beans and Bigger Spong. It makes the world feel more real and complete. What you’re paying for is the roleplay, and the continued game feature of “this is a world where there are pubs/masseurs/buskers/Blacksmiths who polish your armour for a couple of rings”. It enriches the economy by making it more real. I make a few Crowns from selling Pamplets, Porn and Booze like a good Prosperous citizen. If I’m one of few people selling services or goods, then yeah, I’ll be raking it in from the spare cash. But the more people there are selling various stuff IC, the more likely I am to spend my cash on other people’s booze/books/chocolates etc.

If anything, we should encourage people to sell skills and goods for IC coin more, because it is kit improvement that benefits the entire game. Bystanders, customers, people the seller then buys stuff off. EDIT: Oh, wait. That is the Brass Coast cultural brief :stuck_out_tongue:

I know at least one person who took a Business as his resource because he planned to see how much he could supply food and drink from IC coin and save some more RL money for kit for his .3.

The reason that selling IC resources for OC money is bad is because that steals roleplay from people. Your PC has just decided to give my character a fortune in White Granite for no sensible in-character reason, because I paid you £20. Going the other way of OC goods for IC money, if I sell you my dagger physrep for 2 Thrones then you have to wonder why someone paid 2 Thrones for a perfectly ordinary steel dagger. Both of these damage the IC economy by making it less immersive, because resources are flowing around for completely inexplicable reasons.

If I buy a beer off you IC, then my PC has a beer, and he is happy about this. Your PC has money, they are happy about this. I also have a beer, which I got for no OC cost. Score! Both of us get to play characters in a world with pubs, and sit in the pub while we do this. Everyone wins.

The problem at Maelstrom was the general level of massive inflation in the player economy, where you needed the wages of a skilled labourer for a year to buy one small cake. So new PCs couldn’t get involved in the service economy as buyers. Happily, Empire has a few attempts to cap that sort of thing and keep the basic PC income meaningful.

7

[quote=“Jim”]
Going the other way of OC goods for IC money, if I sell you my dagger physrep for 2 Thrones then you have to wonder why someone paid 2 Thrones for a perfectly ordinary steel dagger.[/quote]

I actually have bought a wand physrep for a throne (on the auction; we’ve been selling occasional “Talisma”- beautifully crafted bases for an enchantment to be applied to). It’s my first ever LARP weapon physrep.

IC it’s because it is a beautiful item and one I’ll proudly craft magic into for myself. OC it’s because it’s a beautiful item and I want to actually have some LARP pretties that aren’t just burrowed.

8

Usually the uproar about OC resource translating into IC resource boils down to the fallacy that if someone buys an OC derived resource for 2 thrones say, then somehow every legitimate trader of purely IC goods has been cheated out of that money or has adversely affected their trading.

Which might be a human reaction, but demonstrates not the best grasp of economics.

The only way that IC/OC transaction will impact on the potential pricing/availability of any other trade is if it somehow affects the total cash in circulation (either the thrones to fund it come in from outside extant sources, or the thrones dissappear down a previously non-existant drain).
Relative value is NOT determined by how many potential services you have on offer, provided the currency remains in circulation.

Which is part of the reason why I don’t give a stuff about people who leverage OC advantage into IC gain - but get really, really aggravated by NPCs who just fish a handful of coin out the box before heading out…

9

Mind elaborating on the issue with NPCs attending the field with cashmonies?

10

I agree with what people have said above, running a bar or other IC business usually takes a hell of a lot of effort beyond money in the logistics, setup plus time spent actually running it and it always takes roleplay above and beyond that. And I’m happy that people get a reward for that as it makes for a better and more interesting game.

Another way to look at is that my group get an advantage in game because we’ve spent money on some big tents, set dressing them and getting them to site. This means we get a lot of people spending time with us as we’re set up for having guests, hosting meetings and giving people hospitality. Now that advantage isn’t monetary, it’s poltical and social but you could argue that we’re buying our way to that advantage by spending money as well.

Now you could just issue all players with a standard issue jumpsuit then beat them with sticks for a weekend and people would play that game (some sort of Alpha Complex larp possibly?), but I’m cool with the game we’ve got. As people have said it’s one with many bars, wandering trinket and snack sellers, artists, entertainers and bards selling their services, competing newspapers and purveyors of lurid pulp fiction and all the many many other ways people make IC money out of OOC money and effort, which I think is cooler than the alternative.

11

I don’t see the problem at all. Everyone makes their own game and Empire is no different from any other LARP in that you get out what you put in.

If people bother to organise, transport, brew and sell all weekend the products of their irl labours to generate OC cash, why is this an unfair advantage?

Some of my mates scratch their heads at why I run with a group who are from an area I’m not native to instead of my regular circle of friends. And why I essentially work for free serving behind their bar and helping out. But after seeing the moments everyone - staff and punters alike - have enjoyed in that bar, in this setting, I would do this every weekend if I could. For free.

As for people pouring real life money into it, I can assure you that nobody in our bar is actually wealthy. Well-supported, yes, but not actually wealthy. We borrow a tent every event thanks to some great friends and neighbours, and we brew our own booze in order to lower costs and also because we feel it adds authenticity.

I’m fairly certain most of the bars in Anvil do that as well to a greater or lesser extent.

The same friends of mine who scratch their heads at me also wonder why anyone would visit the main tavern and pay real money when, in their opinion, there’s not much else worth spending the OC cash on except booze in player pubs! They come to Empire to get away from the real world and being extorted for resources is one thing they can’t be bothered with. Which leaves them accumulating cash with little to spend it on. Meanwhile, delicious cakes for rings, the sweet shop, even a massage parlour have emerged - what could possibly be wrong with any of this?

As for IC tax and obligations to spend the money…I don’t see how we differ from any other group in that respect. some groups (I’m looking at you, League) hold a LOT of Bourse positions and stand to become laughably rich from it. No one is proposing taxing them, even though we could really argue that the scales were tipped in their favour for bourse bids on account of the game fluff encouraging League players to pursue money as a means to voting. No one cries foul about that, because its all part of the game - they had to jump through hoops to get what they have, and well played to them. Just because player-made resources aren’t jumping through PD’s hoops shouldn’t prevent them from benefiting from it on account of their hard work. It takes more than money to do things properly and don’t forget, these businesses are staffed! We wouldn’t do it if we didn’t enjoy it, but at the same time we’re committed to rendering an In-character service.

There is brisk trade with lots of player groups offering their own home-brew to the player-pubs - and for me, it just adds to the authenticity. I’ll never forget one event someone brewed a couple of barrels for us and I was sent to help him manhandle the cart up to the pub with them. Most groups bring their own booze with them, some home made, others purchased, and being able to haggle with them when the bar has run dry is an experience I simply couldn’t enjoy anywhere else. Working in a supermarket, I’m used to everything having a set price and a set value and its all very boring - being able to swap and change and work things out with people like for like is a novel and encouraging experience. To me, player run pubs and businesses are one thing that actively encourages people to learn, to live, and to make game for themselves.

After all, we can’t all be generals and senators. What about the 1,400 other people who play the game? What do they do with their time, and how much of it is spent in some pub or another? One things for sure: They couldn’t all fit into the Forge!

12

[quote=“Kingreaper”]I actually have bought a wand physrep for a throne (on the auction; we’ve been selling occasional “Talisma”- beautifully crafted bases for an enchantment to be applied to). It’s my first ever LARP weapon physrep.

IC it’s because it is a beautiful item and one I’ll proudly craft magic into for myself. OC it’s because it’s a beautiful item and I want to actually have some LARP pretties that aren’t just burrowed.[/quote]

Warning: Opinions :stuck_out_tongue:.

Where IC trade of OC goods gets a bit Rule 7 to me is where the IC price far exceeds the IC value of the item.

  • In the case of White Granite for OC Cash, one character has paid in White Granite to buy nothing whatsoever.
  • If I buy that White Granite for a Throne, both PCs have got an IC valuable item.
  • If I buy a beer for 5 rings, I’ve paid a small amount of IC cash for a relatively cheap IC and OC item (~£2 for 5 Rings).
  • Trading a Perfectly Ordinary Wand for 1 Throne is paying a large amount of IC cash for a IC low-value item. (£25 for 160 rings) The player knows they get to keep the physrep but this makes no sense to the character, who can pick a wand up for negligible cost or get a pretty good magical wand for that much.

Auctioning off a “One of a kind, specially crafted item” that is one of those OC too, keeping them rare and highly individual, and making an amount of theatre about the whole thing means you can potentially make it worth it by attaching a level of prestige to an item and provide roleplay for everyone else bidding in that auction. Similar to how running a 1 Crown entry fighting tournament with a one-off dagger with “Anvil’s Finest Knife-Fighter, 378 YE” on the hilt as a prize would be bloody cool. That makes it somewhat different in my mind from setting up a stall with a sign reading “Fred’s Basic Shivs: 1 Throne or £25”.

Ultimately I think it comes down to “Is this trading creating more cool roleplay or a little bit of awkward, handwavey roleplay to justify me getting a pile of IC cash?”.

I am now reminded of Tea’s hilarious concept of “sword hire” where she was going to make half a dozen simple larp swords, put them in a backpack or wheelbarrow or something, and offer to loan them out for the rest of the battle to anyone who took a SHATTER.

13

I can’t comment. I’ve never had a throne to blow on anything.

14

That’s cos you’re not a grass-pushing pre-teen.

By which I mean the kids in the field can sell a blade of grass to an adult for a Throne. Not that they’re distributing marry-ju-arna.

It bears repeating, even if it’s not 100% true:

Rings are for beer
Crowns are for crafting materials
Thrones are for children.

15

There is also absolutely nothing stopping anyone from taking part in making IC money either.

If you’re willing to put in the time, then you can manage to do quite well for very little outlay.

There is someone selling firewood. No OC outlay necessary, but it is taking quite a bit of time.

I’m making cordial, I’ve paid for sugar and lemons but the elderflowers were free. If I dilute that with water and sell it by the glass I could probably do quite well, for not a lot of OC cost.

Most baked goods are saleable and fairly cheap to make.

All of the above improve someone else’s game, and probably their day, and the seller gets a bit of cash to spend on something else (fudge and newspapers mostly in my case).

16

Some people have disposable income for creating stuff to throw at the game.
Some people have time to create stuff for the game.
Some very lucky people have both.
Some people sadly have none of the above.

Similarly some people have talent and skills that make some time or money go a very long way.

Selling stuff for IC money is an obvious trade but:

Having awesome kit means people will likely take note of your character and interact with them, making them more influential.

As Mark pointed out: having a well set up group tent will mean people are more likely to wish to enjoy your groups hospitality. Making you and your group or influential.

From a certain point of view: having the time, resources and ability to write an IC pamphlet and then printing it off arguably could create a lot of influence esp. in the Synod. If people care enough to read and act upon it.

It’s not massively fair but then neither is going into the game with more mates fair. LARP isn’t fair, doesn’t stop it being fun.

I will agree that it can seem a bit odd that bars and similar become so rich but fundamentally people investing time and money into the environment I go to be immersed in is only really a good thing.

From an IC prospective:

Prosperity is a Virtue!

As was pointed out by Matt P when the same issue came up in Maelstrom: The relative IC costs of the items being sold are negligible to the point of being below the abstraction layer.

The vast majority of IC cost would be moving the items to Anvil, and this wouldn’t just effect the bars and cake sellers - lets not deal with the nightmare of having to IC justify the cost of moving every tent onto the field.

    • Frankly it’s a minor miracle that the Urizen manage to get onto the field wearing pants without working ushabti, let alone successful carry and pitch a tent. *

The value of something is having it to provide to the person who wants it at the right time.
(An obvious OC example: the cost of snacks at the cinema etc is frequently 2-3x the cost of the same things from the shop next door)
Anvil is a deliberately undeveloped settlement where the richest and most powerful people in the Empire come for a few days to be as influential as possible and decide the fate of the world away from the comforts of their own settlements.
Makes sense to me at least they’ll be willing to engage in frivolous spending that they wouldn’t otherwise do.
Just as I imagine I’d be shocked at the cost of food at a world-class trade fare.

17

I have no problem with NPCs carefully constructed and a modicum of thought put into how much they should have in their pocket.
I’m not that arsed (to put it in Empire terms) by crew roling out some R&R characters or whatever and putting a crown or two in their pocket.
I take issue when I see NPCs with an order of magnitude higher than the highest base income of a player character, simply acquired by dipping their hands into the spares in GOD because their character should have some money to spend.

It’s not Empire specific, I’ve seen it happen at almost every fest I’ve been at to one degree or another, which is not a small number.

If the Master of the Mint or whatever has to work his ass off over three/four days to ratchet his resources up and has to actually interact with the market generated by the stated game sources and drains - then just because you’re playing an NPC does not give special benefits to avoid all that tedious effort and spit in the face of the crew who’ve probably put no small effort into carefully setting up the economic sources the way they are.

It’s massively open to nepotism, it can and does cause gross market distortions, and it does cause resentment in players that witness it - all whilst I’ve yet to hear an argument as to how it improves the game in anyway beyond making life better for the individual concerned.

18

Crew have characters that generate income normally (that generate each season they crew); so for it to be okay for R&R characters to dip into the kitty, but not NPCs, seems a little odd in my mind, but that’s just me.

The thing is that all of the NPCs are plot actuated, and instructed as to whether or not to collect coin from G.O.D.

Lets say an NPC is instructed to go on and do Things. Sometimes they have money to do Things. If they need money to do Things, then they are given more money than just one person would have for one event for this reason:
There are lots of players on the field. If they have 3 rings to purchase one thing from one person, that is a tiny percentage of effect. If they are given 3 crowns, and get to walk around the field paying for 3 rings worth of Things, they then do Things with 20 players.

I sometimes worry with regard to opinions on money and NPCs; as Boons, or items, are worth just as much or more: though in your case you approve of big written Plot bits.

Have you been temporarily NPC’ing at Empire and just took a wad of coins out for shiggles? You mention other systems, is this a generic peeve or does it apply to something specific in Empire? As I’ve only seen dipping occur when instructed or when someone takes a break from Make-Up and takes enough to get a drink or two (as you identified)

I often help out manning G.O.D. for a few hours when things are busy or people need a break, so it is of particular interest to me.

With regard to the orders of magnitude more than the Master of the Imperial Mint; mechanically speaking he is going to be the poorest person in the League. No Bourse resources, no additional income, has to bid for his position etc; he brings only 18 rings. The construct of the game means he isn’t a very good person to base anything off of; a Marcher
Farmer should have as much or far more income than the Master of the Mint =D but that has nothing to do with your point~

To me, avoiding the 4 days seems inconsequential, as an NPC sent to the field for 4 hours before walking off has no method to engage in the Player game; they are part of The World, and The World functions continually.

It sounds, from the comments regarding NPC and Crew as different things at the end of your post, that the real issue is NPCs taking coin and keeping it afterwards, then becoming Players at another event?

19

[quote=“Vince”]

I have no problem with NPCs carefully constructed and a modicum of thought put into how much they should have in their pocket.
I’m not that arsed (to put it in Empire terms) by crew roling out some R&R characters or whatever and putting a crown or two in their pocket.
I take issue when I see NPCs with an order of magnitude higher than the highest base income of a player character, simply acquired by dipping their hands into the spares in GOD because their character should have some money to spend.

It’s not Empire specific, I’ve seen it happen at almost every fest I’ve been at to one degree or another, which is not a small number.

If the Master of the Mint or whatever has to work his ass off over three/four days to ratchet his resources up and has to actually interact with the market generated by the stated game sources and drains - then just because you’re playing an NPC does not give special benefits to avoid all that tedious effort and spit in the face of the crew who’ve probably put no small effort into carefully setting up the economic sources the way they are.

It’s massively open to nepotism, it can and does cause gross market distortions, and it does cause resentment in players that witness it - all whilst I’ve yet to hear an argument as to how it improves the game in anyway beyond making life better for the individual concerned.[/quote]

If you haven’t reported the specifics of the incident you observed to PD by email, please do.

Sometimes plot comes out into the field with resources that are supposed to end up in player hands. (For example, I know that at least one egregore has a personal resource of identical nature to a character’s personal resource). R&R characters do have personal resources, are members of groups, and could be valid targets for e.g Rivers of Gold, which might lead to them having a couple of Thrones legitimately earned on hand - they are identical to standard characters in every way, as far as I know - but this is undermined by people cheating. I don’t want a situation where R&R characters are forced to attend the field without resources.

20

[quote]I take issue when I see NPCs with an order of magnitude higher than the highest base income of a player character, simply acquired by dipping their hands into the spares in GOD because their character should have some money to spend.

It’s not Empire specific, I’ve seen it happen at almost every fest I’ve been at to one degree or another, which is not a small number.[/quote]

It seems PD are conscious of the issue, hence this section in the “plot style guide”:

crew.profounddecisions.co.uk/Plo … _Resources

[quote]Use Limited Resources
It’s theoretically possible to create NPCs in Empire with access to any amount of resources. They can have unlimited coin, unlimited herbs, crystallized mana or resources. They may be festooned with more powerful artefacts or have vast armies at their command. All plots created should have a clear definition of the resources available to the NPCs, these should be appropriate for the scale and power of the NPCs and they should not normally receive additional resources based on plot developments.

Economics is one of the core tools that the Empire system uses to make every character as important as possible. The wealth that the characters possess makes them rich and significant, it makes them valuable to their fellow characters. NPCs whose resources dwarf those of the players directly undermine this design goal. They also undermine the related goal that the PCs are the most important people in the world.

It is important to appreciate that NPCs are often only in play for short amounts of time, so they have less need of resources than PCs do, not more. NPCs in many LRP games are a byword for economic inconsistency, they tend to carry vast wealth but are simultaneously utterly ignorant as to its true worth. This problem starts with giving them unlimited resources. Any good plot should use the least resources possible and should aim to have less resources than the characters involved might need or want - just like PCs do. This is critical for making characters that are consistent with the game’s economic setting.

In Empire, a single PC gets 14 herbs per event, or 7 mana crystals or 10 resources. This is a good amount of resources for an important and powerful NPC to have. If you are sending out a large group of NPCs to represent a powerful group, they may have two or three times these resources to try and achieve their aims over an event. Plots that require resources significantly in excess of these are likely to get edited. [/quote]

On the matter of the OP, this topic does seem to crop up periodically (it clearly has Unstoppable and Hero Points) but little changes. Mostly because, even if you assume you want it to change, it would be very hard to actually enforce (and may result in an illegal cake black market, which sounds entertaining unless you are the person trying to enforce it). Many people (including PD) don’t see it as a problem, and there’s no fix even if it were.

Any discussion about OC wealth and the game is always prickly and better avoided. At its very very worst, consider arguments like (straw men ahoy):

  • Why do Children have this whole Institution run for their benefit when they don’t pay OC money into the game?
  • Should people getting student/unemployed discounts get fewer resources/plot because they are paying less?

Tl;DR - Its not a problem. If it were a problem, it would be a nightmare/impossible to fix. Being disgruntled about what “those other people” are doing (within the rules) is rarely a positive experience for anyone.